TUG runes

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  • GeveoGeveo REGISTERED Posts: 37
    spacedot wrote:

    @ Geveo sorry about copying your thread i did give you credit. If i had left it another day it would all be gone. The god picture is not in this thread because its in the god thread as it does not have any runes in it.

    I know i posted this last night but everyone seemed to have missed it again. We don't have correct runes. Geveo i know you had more pictures of runes which if you could pm me so we could have a full set. Going over what we have may show us what we have wrong.

    I really was thanking you, spacedot, not just being ironic. I appreciate your giving me credit for what I did in that previous thread. :)

    As for the incorrect runes, the updated alphabet file (posted above by ashen44, and at the top of the thread by spacedot) seems to agree perfectly with the rune font that is included in the current Alpha build of TUG. Now, this may not be the exact rune set being used with Merylisk's text, and it's not always easy to make clear distinctions -- but based on what has been reverse engineered from the current font files, I think that alphabet is correct.

    I do have some more rune font images, which I've tried to gather in a more friendly form. I think this image shows all that I have. I've trimmed non-rune portions of the images, but I haven't cut out any runes, and I've not reduced the images from the originals... some of them are hard enough to read as is.

    Notes on these images:
    Old Website Promo
    The first thing I translated. Note that the suffixes here don't exactly match the suffixes used in NK's motto. Apparently there was some debate about the suffixes inside NK, though the discussion of that is probably lost with the old forums. I believe it was Ino who stated that the decision was made to go with "Latin-like" suffixes on the motto, but not actually correct Latin. He gave the impression that it was a stylistic choice, but now looking at the golden text, I suspect that it reflected a broader choice within the TUG language system, not just a whim for the logo.

    Art Book Teaser
    Apologies for forgetting who first pointed this image out to me from the Paypal campaign, but I don't remember who first pointed out the runes here... (It may have been "Glitch2212" Sorry, I'm just not sure).
    This image is an important clue to the multiple fonts; very faintly you can read "style A" at the top left corner, and again for each of the rune lines below. Notice that each rune line has a distinct style to it. None of these perfectly match the rune font from Merylisk's golden text, or the runes in the current alpha build, but the bottom row seems closest. The letters don't seem to be in any word or alphabetical order. My guess is that they came up with the runes first, then assigned letters (or other meanings) to them after this style sheet was drawn up.

    Font Pack Teaser
    Not much to say. It seems pretty obvious that the rune here is one form of "A".

    Crafting Cards
    Very puzzling image. What are the cards for? Are they in the game, or just a concept thing? Or a red herring? Notice how angular and blocky the font is. This is clearly a different font from the banners (below) or from the golden text. It may be the font from the second line of the Art Book Teaser. If it does read "Crafting", then some letters are very similar to our other fonts, but others (such as the presumed "A" are completely different.

    Forum Banners
    These were what really got me started on the runes. The font here is very similar to the golden text font, but there are differences, most notably the N, but other letters are also different to varying degrees. I don't have the original untranslated files... the translations shown in the images were put there by me.
  • SigilSigil REGISTERED Posts: 678 Developer
    Thanks for that Geveo. I've been wanting to look at those images again since this came out.
  • spacedotspacedot REGISTERED Posts: 416 Seed
    i never saw that first one so i just asumed it was missed. sorry to everyone for missing that.Knew you would have those pictures stored somewhere Geveo. The other thing you had in your old thread was altering the TUG loading screen, do you think we could find the j,u and w with it? Going by your first try HERE h has a different rune which we haven't placed. Maybe thats one of those 3 we are missing?
  • SigilSigil REGISTERED Posts: 678 Developer
    Hey it's fine.

    My understanding was those keys come up blanks.

    I'm not ruling out that have some hidden reason for them but I'm betting they left them out on purpose. The TUG language may not have j,u and w the way that Old Norse for example doesn't the same letters we use today though the origins are there.

    eldrfuthark.gif

    Honestly I'd be more worried if there were more than 26 characters.
  • SigilSigil REGISTERED Posts: 678 Developer
    Speaking of Norse

    Vaka is Norse for Vigil, Watch, Be awake/ Stay awake.

    Stela is steal, rob

    http://www.vikingsofbjornstad.com/Old_N ... y_E2N.shtm
    There might be more in here too.

    Also it seem ahtator may be a non-existent word created by garbling letters. I keep looking it up and realized it wasn't another language. it was English. except... it was a book run through some process of digitizing old books. lets just say it's not working very well.

    Unfortunately it's so garbled I couldn't get an context out of it.
  • spacedotspacedot REGISTERED Posts: 416 Seed
    if we cannot find anything it translates too it could be a word completely made up by meryl (if you have done this i will be so mad at you) or it could be a name.
  • PamcakesPamcakes REGISTERED Posts: 738
    I'm willing to bet that it is entirely made up and that the letters are wrong. What we need to do is find the old pictures that had words on them, figure those out, and line up the alphabet as it gets figured it out.
    That's a really cool shirt you have on.
  • spacedotspacedot REGISTERED Posts: 416 Seed
    thats how we have the current alphabet we went over all the stuff we had. It does look like gibberish atm but its all we have and some of it at least looks like it makes sense.
  • LeifLeif REGISTERED Posts: 361 Seed
    None of it makes much sense, but the speculation is FUN :)
    otViQlH.png
  • GeveoGeveo REGISTERED Posts: 37
    spacedot wrote:
    i never saw that first one so i just asumed it was missed. sorry to everyone for missing that.Knew you would have those pictures stored somewhere Geveo. The other thing you had in your old thread was altering the TUG loading screen, do you think we could find the j,u and w with it? Going by your first try HERE h has a different rune which we haven't placed. Maybe thats one of those 3 we are missing?
    Pamcakes wrote:
    I'm willing to bet that it is entirely made up and that the letters are wrong. What we need to do is find the old pictures that had words on them, figure those out, and line up the alphabet as it gets figured it out.

    Pamcakes, I think I had a complete collection of all the early images with Rune Text in them, and I've copied everything that I had into the image above.

    The current alphabet file is correct, or at least it matches the glyph font files issued with the current version of alpha. Unfortunately, the J, U, and W still show an error character.

    As I said before, my original alphabet file combined characters from at least 2 different rune font sets, which is why the H is different in my original file and in the current updated alphabet. One thing we should strive for, going forward, is to try to keep the various versions of the rune fonts separate from each other. Many use very similar glyphs for the same rune, no different than two people's handwriting. But other characters can be wildly different. And if the Art Book Teaser image above is any indication, some of the fonts will look very very different from what we see in Merylisk's golden text.

    If you want to see the Glyph Font from the current TUG Alpha build, you can test it for yourself. Here's one way:
    In the TUG/Assets/Data folder, there is a file called "fonts.txt" Make a copy of this file, and name it something else, like xxfonts.txt, so if you make a mistake and mess things up, you can restore your old file easily.

    Open the fonts.txt file in a text editor.

    Copy all the numbered values from the "TUG Glyph" section (but not the name).

    Replace the values in the FreeSans section (but not the name) with the glyph values.

    Save the file and fire up TUG.

    Enter a new game name -- You will be typing in the rune characters.
  • PamcakesPamcakes REGISTERED Posts: 738
    Maybe some were changed? That could explain why find of the old images that had the lettering on them.
    That's a really cool shirt you have on.
  • GeveoGeveo REGISTERED Posts: 37
    Pamcakes wrote:
    Maybe some were changed? That could explain why find of the old images that had the lettering on them.

    They weren't simply changed... at least it doesn't appear that way. There are multiple glyph alphabets. That's what the Art Book Teaser image helped establish, and it's confirmed by the different fonts in the Banner Images as compared to the font that shipped with Alpha. I'm confident that the banner images are correctly translated, and that means that the N is a completely different rune from the current alpha build font.

    And it's not because the banner image is simply older. Probably the oldest image we have is the PLAY TUG image, and it uses the same version of the N as the current font in the alpha build.

    Looking at the font data files, they have clearly set things up so that they can use multiple fonts. There's only one font in the current build, but there are LOTS of things that aren't in that build yet.

    I think that eventually TUG is going to have quite a few different rune alphabets. We have already seen fragments of at least 6 or 7 of them, and we've translated quite a bit of at least 2 of them.
  • GeveoGeveo REGISTERED Posts: 37
    OK... sorry for the double post, but something else dawned on me.

    Sigil suggested that the letters we're "missing" might not be missing, but might simply not be part of the set at all... that we might be dealing with a 23 character alphabet.

    This makes a lot of sense. It always seemed weird that the font would just be buggy. Programming bugs, sure... but missing whole letters from a font? In ALL the font sizes?

    We already have a precedent for Latin-like word forms in TUG, but J, U, and W all came into use during the middle ages or the early Renaissance. Most (all?) other letters originated much earlier. "J" grew out of different forms and usages of the letter "I", for example. "U" developed by splitting the dual usages of "V", which was once used as both a consonant and a vowel. "W" was created to accomodate a Germanic pronunciation halfway between a "V" and a "B". So if we're dealing with a Latin-like language form, then those letters may indeed not even be part of the equation.

    Taking this a step further, that just as "I" once served multiple purposes as a letter, some of the 23 characters in the alpha rune font may double for characters that are missing. Quite possibly for adjacent or phonetically similar characters that are missing.

    Which leads to some further wild speculation.

    For example, "vakad" might be better translated as "wakad", or "xarom'iya" might be more accurately seen as "warom'iya", in which case the key first word might simply be "war". The possibilities are enticing, but endless.

    If things are really going to be that complicated, we may be facing a hopelessly uphill climb without some sort of Rosetta Stone, or at least more text to work with, or even just some environmental context for the text we have. Where does Merylisk's Golden Text appear in the game world? In a temple? On a tomb? On a stone slab in the middle of nowhere? In a ruined palace? At the bottom of a frozen lake? This sort of context might help us better figure out what it says.
  • SigilSigil REGISTERED Posts: 678 Developer
    Gods this is serious.

    I have to say we're doing well, but until we have larger text to cross reference and work out the kinks, we're going to having some serious issues confirming ANY theories.
  • MichaelMichael REGISTERED Posts: 59
    I came to this thread hoping to contribute some of my latin knowledge.

    I've come to the conclusion that this is way over my head. Good Job nerd kingdom
  • Ashen44Ashen44 REGISTERED Posts: 207 Seed
    crap just realized this is more than one page! not familiar with this new forum! i suddenly feel embarrassed.
    The pessimist sees the glass as half empty. The optimist sees it half full. The engineer sees the glass as twice as big as it needs to be.
  • GeveoGeveo REGISTERED Posts: 37
    Just to clarify: The font that is in the current build of the game is indeed missing the J, U, and W characters. We have all the runes that are currently in that set, and it is the same set that is used in the golden text.

    That set can be completely translated using the font.txt swap I described above, and if you try it you can see it for yourself. I'm attaching below a copy of what I'm calling the "Alpha Font" (since it shipped with Alpha), taken directly from the game itself.

    I know this is information we already have, but some folks have been reluctant to accept the translation as accurate. It is accurate. It's not based on educated guesswork, it's taken directly from the game. I'm hoping this will convince the doubters.

    I made this image by following the steps I described above, and typing out ABCDEFG... etc, both in regular characters and in rune characters, screen capturing, and copy pasting them into a single image. I had to do a little clean-up around the edges, but I made no changes to the runes. You can see that the J, U, and W all show an error character, because there are no runes for those.

    I think that unless Nerd Kingdom patches the file with the missing letters added, we have to assume they were left out deliberately.

    The other forms of the N, H, and other letters in the Banner images and the Card Box image belong to different rune fonts. I'm calling those the "Banner Font" and the "Card Font". In the next day or two, I'll try to pull together the partial versions of those two runic alphabets, since we have at least a few letters translated for each of those of which we can be fairly confident.
  • JoeJoe REGISTERED Posts: 264 Seed
    Does NK have a linguist in their ranks?
    b8sgmv.jpg
    TUG Wiki||Metallum Corpus is Hiring!||IRC: #tug @ esper.net
  • SigilSigil REGISTERED Posts: 678 Developer
    If anyone I'd say it'd be one Meryl Coker.
  • GeveoGeveo REGISTERED Posts: 37
    OK, here are the other two rune sets for which we have at least some letters translated.

    I'm very confident of the letters for the Banner Font. Most of them are a close match to letters from the Alpha Font, and those that aren't are pretty clearly corroborated from the words in the banners.

    The Card Font translation is much more speculative. We only have one word to go on. This translation assumes that word is "Crafting". The C, R, T, and I are good matches for the letters in other fonts, and the F and G have some resemblance, but the A and the N seem very different.

    I had to hand copy the Card Font runes, so they are a little inconsistent in size, but I tried to convey them as accurately as I could. I couldn't just copy them from the original image, as they are written in an arc, and viewed at an angle.

    I've also Included the Alpha Font again, so everyone can compare the three typefaces side by side.

    Just looking at them stylistically, the Banner font looks more casual and 'handwritten' to me, the Alpha Font more formal, and the Card Font looks very blocky and angular.
  • Hane_DarskapHane_Darskap REGISTERED Posts: 40
    Arkneos wrote:
    All right so I decoded the new TUG runes into the English alphabet;

    Stelam'iya eternei creod

    Caelam'iya, devotei vakad

    Theram'iya, oblivisei teacid

    Xarom'iya, ahtator tenebrei


    Facts;
    There were four lines on the 'stone'
    Each line had three words on them
    'Iya' is at the end of each word that starts a line
    Commas ',' are only seen after the first line and continue on until the lines end
    None of the words are the same


    Translation
    (IN PROGRESS - We still don't know if this is all right or not! Please give your suggestions as to what you think it might be/mean):

    Poem version;

    First line:

    This ancient stone's eternal creed;

    Second line;

    A call (to) (a) holy event,

    Third line;

    A sign (of) hidden oblivion,

    fourth line;

    Xaro awaits (in) (the) darkness.


    ''Four out of The Twelve'' version;

    First line:

    Stars (mountains/earth?) of the Eternal Creod

    Second line;

    Skies of the Devoted Vakad

    Third line;

    Fires (Sun?) of the Destroying Teacid

    fourth line;

    Night (Ocean(s)?) of Ahtator the Dark one.


    The second poem is, from what I'd figure to be, the names of the gods perhaps? Or names and titles of beings of power regarding a significant event in history?
    18.jpg
    2.jpg
  • ArkneosArkneos REGISTERED Posts: 71
    That's actually exactly what they are - or, we are heavily assuming that these are names of gods. At the very least, they're legendary people.
    The names most likely belong to four out of twelve of the 'Gods' we've seen in a video. I've been trying to get people to post the image so we can try to place these names, but so far no one seems to have it.
  • SigilSigil REGISTERED Posts: 678 Developer
    We're in disagreement on that detail my friend. :)
  • GeveoGeveo REGISTERED Posts: 37
    Arkneos wrote:
    That's actually exactly what they are - or, we are heavily assuming that these are names of gods. At the very least, they're legendary people.
    The names most likely belong to four out of twelve of the 'Gods' we've seen in a video. I've been trying to get people to post the image so we can try to place these names, but so far no one seems to have it.

    I posted an image of "The Twelve" a couple of days ago, on what is now page 9 of this thread:
    http://forum.nerdkingdom.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=51&start=80

    There is a discussion of the nature of these persons (be they deities or no), and additional images here:
    http://forum.nerdkingdom.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=50

    And the idea that this poem refers to them, or even that they are gods, is little more than hopeful speculation. They may be heroes of legend, and not "divine" at all, or they may simply be anthropomorphizations of important animals found in the game, or something else unguessed at.

    And Merylisk's golden text may not even be a poem, per se. It might be a recipe for Yorkshire Pudding, for all we know.

    I do suspect that the golden text might refer to some of the 12, but I'm no more convinced of that theory than of some of the other various attempts at translation. I wanted to throw that idea into the mix as another reasonable possibility, but until we have more to go on, I think all possibilities (reasonable or otherwise) remain open.
  • SigilSigil REGISTERED Posts: 678 Developer
    I'm running through translators again and got a translation from Latin and romanian (I think it's making leaps)

    Eternei = Eternal. which we guessed. But,
    Devotei = Devout/Devoutly Latin
    Devotei = Devoted Romanian

    Obviously the romanian originated in latin but the 'Devout' missed me initially. I might fit the context better.

    Tenebrei
    Tenebros like Tenebrae

    Romanian for Dark, Gloomlyor Obscure

    I'm not sure how I missed this earlier.

    Here's a bit of a leap... I put Teacid through a Latin word descrambler and got

    Dictae: The Plural, Female, Nomitive of Dictus meaning:
    said, uttered; mentioned, spoken, having been said.
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dictus#Latin
    Caedit: Which is the Third, Singular, Active, Present, Indicative(Oh god someone help) of caedō meaning:
    To cut, to hew, to fell.
    To strike, to beat.
    To kill.

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/caedo#Latin

    This gets into complex inflections which I frankly do not understand. It's about their grammar and what I do know is english doesn't have nearly as complicated a version as latin and some other languages (German, Slovak).

    This is a leap and should be excluded as soon as a more credible translation shows itself but Teacid has eluded me for quite a while. it was time to get creative. If you know Latin, specifically the grammar It'd be a big help if you could help us work out the logic of all this or the others.

    Also hotărât (romanian) descrambled from Ahtator basically meaning Decided
  • jollyjack1999jollyjack1999 REGISTERED Posts: 36
    After going through a few possible languages this is the best I could translate
    Eternei= eternal
    Devotei= devotee, devout, or devoted
    Tenebrei= darkness or shadow
    Vakad= spectacular case
    Creod= the foot
    I'm not too sure about those last two translations though, they're possible though
    The True Sign of Intelligence is not Knowledge but Imagination
    -Albert Einstein
  • SebySeby REGISTERED Posts: 2
    The suffix [-'iya] could be used to indicate that it's a god.

    "xarom" reversed gives "morax" which is a demon with a bull-like head, President of Hell, and so on...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morax_(demon)
    It matches with "tenebrei" (darkness).

    So, my guess is that the first word (including the suffix [-'iya]) is the name of a TUG god, and the following words his title.

    Maybe something likes this:
    "Xarom (as a god), (is) commander of the darkness"

    Xarom could be the 5th guy from the left:
    6cJqfjBl.jpg
  • WingidonWingidon REGISTERED Posts: 1,128 Seed
    Seby wrote:
    The suffix [-'iya] could be used to indicate that it's a god.

    "xarom" reversed gives "morax" which is a demon with a bull-like head, President of Hell, and so on...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morax_(demon)
    It matches with "tenebrei" (darkness).

    So, my guess is that the first word (including the suffix [-'iya]) is the name of a TUG god, and the following words his title.

    Maybe something likes this:
    "Xarom (as a god), (is) commander of the darkness"

    Xarom could be the 5th guy from the left:
    6cJqfjBl.jpg
    That's just GENIUS
  • SebySeby REGISTERED Posts: 2
    Wingidon wrote:
    That's just GENIUS
    Thanks :D

    "Caelam" could be inspired by the latin which means "heavenly".

    "Vakad" could be: Visual Auditive Kinaesthetic Auditory Digital.
    It refers to the 5 senses.
  • jollyjack1999jollyjack1999 REGISTERED Posts: 36
    Geveo wrote:
    stelam iya eternei creod
    Stones (mountains? Earth, Stars?) of the Eternal Creod

    caelam iya devotei vakad
    Sky (air?) of the Devoted Vakad

    theram iya oblivisei teacid
    Fire (Sun?) of the Destroying Teacid

    xarom iya ahtator tenebrei
    Ocean (Night? Water?) of Ahtator the Dark one.
    If you read this translation if you notice they all seem to be aspects of the elements earth, air, fire, water so the translation may have some tie to the four basic elements, just a thought
    The True Sign of Intelligence is not Knowledge but Imagination
    -Albert Einstein
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