Nerd Kingdom bought by Chinese mobile gaming corp in 2014?

Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
edited June 2016 in Banter/General
Interesting. Not seeing too many open announcements about this around here.

http://img1.igg.com/9900/news/2015/05/05/359514116.pdf

TUG as browser game, anyone? Lolz.
«1

Comments

  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    Gosh. IGG's portfolio is astonishingly high quality. Absolutely no plagiarism of other well-known Android games.

    http://www.igg.com/
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    May press release from IGG
    http://img1.igg.com/9900/news/2015/05/05/432214474.pdf

    IGG hilariously expects Tug to become a "one star game" in two years from May 2015 with "seamless access for both PCs and mobile devices"
    http://www.gfgroup.com.hk/docs/gfgroup/securities/Report/CorporateReport/IGG (8002%20HK)%20May%208.pdf

    IGG is a Chinese company but offshore, squirreled away in the Caymans, which dumped $3 million on NK in Q4 2014, and as of Q2 2015 owned 61% of NK and could appoint up to two directors of the firm:
    http://iis.quamnet.com/media/IRAnnouncement/8002/EN_US/002239918-0.PDF

    Michael Weiser, an original co-founder of the firm, confirms the $3 million figure and that they "sold NK to a Chinese gaming company":
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelsweiser

    NK still had 33 staff in Dec 2015:
    http://www.todayir.com/webcasting/igg_15ar/ppt.pdf

    At best, y'all kickstarted a mobile cow clicker, guys. At worst you started a pyramid which made some knob rich while the company has no physical product to show after 6 years. Suck it up.
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    So this is why four years of work was trashed and restarted and the sudden focus on a new cross-platform engine. The talk about going F2P with microtransactions - sorry , PLEDGES - and mod monetisation started at exactly the same time. All it takes to placate 95% of the suckers who stumped up the starting capital is to drive round and round in a parking lot and use a lot of hipster marketing jargon.

    You've been bought out. Suckers.
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    61% of your base belong to us
  • SimbaSimba REGISTERED, Developers Posts: 74 Developer
    This is an impressive amount of research. Good job. It's true we've been working with IGG, and it's true they have some expectations about where we're going. The reality of the situation is that to make games, you need money, and to get money, you need investors. The Kickstarter campaign came in at about a quarter million, and we had a warning page on Steam advising people not to buy the game unless they knew what they were getting into, and that combined amount is not reasonable to do all the things we're setting out to do.

    I'm really not sure what good it's doing you to post all of this information now that we've stopped accepting people's money. You seem to be attacking the consumers instead of attacking the developers. Either way, I'm sure that in your world we're a cash-grab and we're not doing anything with our time, but with your own research I think you can see that's untrue. IGG is interested in our idea, and they're interested in expanding their company. Just because Facebook bought Oculus doesn't mean it's now exclusively about social media. Just because we're working with IGG doesn't mean the vision of TUG has changed.

    NK has more than 33 employees at this point, and we show up to work 8 hours a day 5 days a week. Most of those people are relatively new, myself included, and came on board because we were just as excited about the idea as those who bought into it. Arguably our commitment is even more, and we would be devastated if it failed. You may lose your $15 but we will lose months of our life working on something we truly believe in. We're doing our best to not disappoint.

    One more thing to keep in mind: you say that we haven't delivered a product in 6 years but the company hasn't been working on TUG that long. Nerd Kingdom was a data science company (and still is today) before it was a game company. The Kickstarter for TUG wasn't until 2013. It's not unheard of for a game to take 3 years to develop and when it was first being developed the team size was only around 10 people. Also, the game was planned to be rewritten (in some fashion) way before IGG came to the table.

    Thanks for your time.
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    Mate, I just googled your names. Nothing impressive about that.

    Walk away now. Before you wreck your career. This has Godus written all over it. Some of those people will never work again.
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    edited June 2016
    It just astonishes me that 30+ people could work 40 hours a week for six months and have so little to show for it.

    I work in a public service supporting young people with disabilities. Do you know what we could do with $3 million? I don't even get paid to travel between sites.

    You parasites.
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    Your "excitement" is worth jack.

    Your comparison with Facebook/Oculus is not doing you any favours.

    Monetise my arse.
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    edited June 2016
    So tell me, "Simba", what about the people who backed the original Kickstarter at a higher level and were promised* rewards? 3 years of waiting for a signed poster is perfectly reasonable, is it? Did you know all of this when you signed up to work here?

    Is it really the best you can do to the people that supported your livelihood in the beginning, to say, "Well, you gambled, and lost, suck it up, it takes time to make games, even if we end up making a completely different one to the one we pitched to you?" Because that's what we're getting. It's minor in the grand scheme, since I'm assuming no fucker was stupid enough to pledge money they couldn't afford. But it's still despicable. In some other times and places you would be answering these questions in court.

    *not legally binding obvs
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    Honestly, all these fucks who put tiny print on the Early Access which says "Don't buy this if you don't want to support a dream" and then churn out a load of artwork and posters and videos to persuade you to do just that, who turn around years later and think they are fucking pearly-white because they can legally say "We never promised anything".

    First against the wall.
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    Just fucking watch this:



    Are we having fun yet?

    Do you have "every possible tool at your disposal" to help us have mobile gaming fun?

    Did you model the way the "community" reacted?

    If this really is all part of the "experiment" you should really start telling people because it's a masterstroke of post-modern headfuckery.
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    Oh well, guess I'll play Landmark instead. It has the Yogscast seal of approval after all.

    LOL JOKES

    http://store.steampowered.com/app/297810
  • inoino REGISTERED, ADMINISTRATORS, Moderator, Developers Posts: 131 El Jefe
    @Deadlock989 I didn't realize that you went this far with how you felt about what we are doing. Happy to hear your thoughts in a conversation. Its really a bummer it went THIS far.
    I am a Dev on TUG, and I does teh science

    Follow me on the twitters, why not? @inoritewtf
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    No, hon, we're not taking it offline. You wanted player data, I'm giving you player data. You're the experts on player behaviour, right? This is what you wanted? Behaviour?

    So why did you keep your investor's name hush-hush? Didn't you want people to know it was IGG? Didn't want people to know they now own 61% of your ass and call the shots?

    Simba says "Just because we're working with IGG doesn't mean the vision of TUG has changed." But that's a little disingenuous, isn't it, and very carefully worded. No, it doesn't mean the vision HAS to have changed. But it has changed, hasn't it? Completely?
  • inoino REGISTERED, ADMINISTRATORS, Moderator, Developers Posts: 131 El Jefe
    Cool, you wanna keep this open, in the public? Im good with that, we have never had anything to hide, that doesn't change now.

    It was not our intention to hide anything at all. That information is VERY VERY public, it was just of no consequence, since it really doesn't impact our product in any way. We have autonomy, we are still creating an open world sandbox, we still (and have always been) big on the idea of modding.

    The discussion of going FTP was our own, it was exploratory dialog, to see if we could get some honest dialog and share perspective. The result of all of that dialog is that its very unlikely that we are going to go FTP. And we have already made the decision to NOT allow modders to sell content, and instead, we as a studio, will license mods that offer strong value to what the community does, and reward them for what they have accomplished as modders/developers.

    Simba/Josh (as much as I love him), is not the dude to think too much into wording what he has to say. We aren't all PR dudes, we are developers, designers, engineers, artists... we dont have PR people on our payroll, and marketing people would shit themselves with as much unplanned art concepts and work I push out at random. The goal for this studios culture was to be an extension of the community, not a bunch of pricks in some glass tower touting about superiority. Its only a matter of circumstance that with early phases of building the engine, there is not a lot to talk about or share.

    With no FTP model, and no monetization of mods... I don't think it really has changed. But it doesnt mean we should not have dialog with the community about anything and everything that comes up. Its the result of us wanting the community to feel they have say in what we do... which is why we didnt just up and do it and tell everyone to go fuk themselves, because markeitng dollars would drown out anyone from the old community, and bring in entirely new members who may like a FTP game instead. Nope... didnt do that.
    I am a Dev on TUG, and I does teh science

    Follow me on the twitters, why not? @inoritewtf
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    Can you turn the following sentence into plain English please: "we as a studio, will license mods that offer strong value to what the community does, and reward them for what they have accomplished as modders/developers."
  • Re EvolutionRe Evolution REGISTERED Posts: 1,105 Seed
    From my understanding, that sentence is implying that if/when an incredibly impressive mod (or one that the community loves) comes around, they will either implement it into the full game themselves, or have it somewhere along the lines of a donation system for the developer (somewhat like Nexus has been doing for the larger mod developers). But then again, I have been out of the community for a while due to my job taking up most of my time. Ino will probably be able to explain it better or more accurately
    5.jpg
  • inoino REGISTERED, ADMINISTRATORS, Moderator, Developers Posts: 131 El Jefe
    edited June 2016
    @Deadlock989 Yea, I can see how that could have been rough to translate. More simply put, if a modder make something that lots of people are loving, NK will pay them moneys, and integrate it into the core game (assuming its a mod of the core game). And if its something that they made that is totally unique, its own game MODE or entire new game, NK will pay them to continue supporting it and making it better.

    This way, the community ISNT* paying for those things, Nerd Kingdom is...

    Thinking through it logically, if that mod (in any form), is making people constantly play, come back, and invite new friends, its clearly valuable, and so is that developer/modder. So its in our best interest to encourage/incentivize him to do more, and even do better work, if possible.
    I am a Dev on TUG, and I does teh science

    Follow me on the twitters, why not? @inoritewtf
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    edited June 2016
    Maybe. Smacks of those competitions where people brightly say "Design our new logo and win a free copy of the game!" and people spend 100 hours on it.

    Ino, you say the information was "very very public" yet I've seen no mention of it anywhere. The only reason I found it was because I was looking for your public accounts and had some pretty specific search terms - in my country limited companies have to publish broad accounts, but it seems not in the States. So let's cut the crap. You absolutely didn't want it broadcast that a Chinese mobile games firm with its bank in the Caymans owned your outfit and has the right to appoint 2 out of 5 directors of your firm now. And I still think it's suspicious that within a few months of that buyout, there's this mysterious change of direction to web game tech. But that's always just going to be speculation, isn't it.

    Exploratory dialog = "we wanted to do it but realised quite quickly it would go down like a xenon balloon". We're not born yesterday.

    You say that you wanted to be an extension of the community. Newsflash, but the community aren't nuclear engineers or PhDs in economics and game theory, nor do they get to have Chinese magnates shower them in $3 million every now and then on a whim. You are in a position of extreme privilege. Start acting like it.

    If I have a say, then I say this: put some kind of game back on the table ASAP because you're really on the edge of the precipice now. Fuck your lofty dreams and your psychobabble brain dumps. Just get on with making a game. It is an embarrassment that you only now thinking this stuff through after your hot-shot player data corp has existed for 6 years.

    Oh, and sort your Kickstarter backers out, because that's just massively disrespectful after you took all those millions.

    *drops mic*
  • RawrRawr REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 509 Seed
    Oh... if you're after some kind of game to be on the table, it's already there. Sure, TUG currently can't be purchased but if you supported the game during EarlyAccess or at a high enough tier on KickStarter, you should already have access.

    Assuming you do, the next question is have you been able to startup and load the game just fine?
    Programmer, designer, artist.
  • inoino REGISTERED, ADMINISTRATORS, Moderator, Developers Posts: 131 El Jefe
    @Deadlock989 you're right, that is speculative at this point. Web tech is a powerful thing, and its something we don't want to miss out on... the concept of hardware is all converging, and it makes the most sense to make something that works with all devices, not just one.

    We never mentioned our first investors, either... not a whole lot of companies do, unless there is some significance for doing so. Should I also give you the name of my own friends and family that put faith and money into the first revs of the project? Have we not demonstrated transparency enough over the years, to not at least garner some benefit of the doubt? We make ourselves readily available to ANYONE that has something to say. We censor nobody. We answer anything. And are happy to engage even those that go out of their way to express EXTREME distaste for us, and what we do.

    On the comment of privilege, that's kinda bullshit. You act as if we were just HANDED this opportunity, that we created this from nothing. I was born and raised in LA, in a lower class family with 6 kids and a single mother, who teaches "special ed", specifically children with autism... which is what inspired me to get into development and cognitive psychology. From your own background, im sure I dont have to tell YOU how shitty that sort of pay is... I had to bust my ass, while working full time to help support my family to get where we are today, while going to school, and building a company from dirt. I don't come from money, I don't expect things to be just handed to me, nor do my devs. People bled to get here, so privilege is where i'll draw the line.

    I will agree with you on one thing, however, our Kickstarter backers did, and do deserve better. I have, and will continue to admit that I have failed and keeping communication to the best of my abilities. We have dropped the ball a few times, under my own guidance as well. The best I can do is learn from those QUICKLY and rectify those wrongs. Which is more the reason why I, and this team, have, and will continue to do everything in and out of our power to make the best game, and platform we can.

    Anyone can make a game, but our team is capable of doing more, and its what drives us, and continues to recruit talent LITERALLY from around the world.
    I am a Dev on TUG, and I does teh science

    Follow me on the twitters, why not? @inoritewtf
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    edited June 2016
    Rawr said:

    Oh... if you're after some kind of game to be on the table, it's already there. Sure, TUG currently can't be purchased but if you supported the game during EarlyAccess or at a high enough tier on KickStarter, you should already have access.

    Assuming you do, the next question is have you been able to startup and load the game just fine?

    Rawr: That version of TUG is toast. It's dead, erased, replaced with a vapor browser concept, why bother with it any more? I did play it a few times. It's a broken shell. I was back on modded Minecraft after a couple of hours, until Factorio came along. That game is like crack.

    Ino: we're done. Actions mate, not words. Listen, don't talk. Your tongue is forked. Put up or STFU.
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    edited June 2016
    One last question though: who are the IGG directors, the 2 of 5? Can we talk to them?
  • inoino REGISTERED, ADMINISTRATORS, Moderator, Developers Posts: 131 El Jefe
    @Deadlock989 I agree, actions, not words. And my actions in engaging, I hope shows to some extent, that we are still here, not running off. Just demonstrated a video demo in video form... is there some disconnect on what vaporware is... orrrrrrrr?

    I don't understand what you mean by my tongue is forked. I am sure its nothing encouraging, but still curious.

    On the note of asking members of the board of directors, to step into the forums, what would you be hoping to resolve? More slander towards myself and the team, and someone higher up to hear your opinions? Would you like to give them advice on how to run their company and own investment decisions, from your own experiences? Would you like to hear from them that we do in fact have freedom to create what we want? Validation of the project's goals? When we bring on the NEXT investors, would you feel it necessary to speak with them as well?

    I am hesitant, as your brief history on our forums does not really demonstrate an ability to have rationale discussion. I have seen a great deal of hearsay, slander, obscenity, and aggressive temperament, not to mention blatant disregard for your audience. The idea that I would ask someone from our board to take time out of their day to field what just occurred is not something that is all that encouraging to me.

    All of this just the same, I could not guarantee they would even agree to take the time. This sort of request is more a less unheard of from any company, I think ever in life ever. "Hey bro, I just totally trash talked you as a dev, belittle your time, effort, and intentions and stuff, but can I talk to your board of directors too?"

    However on the topics of refunds... email me your receipt, and I would be thrilled to offer you one, if you are so inclined.

    yet another thing we can agree on, we are done. I have given you countless moments of my day to sate your concerns, and still distain exists with your replies. This is unfortunate, I often find that people I spend the most time interacting with, result in some of my favorite discussions.
    I am a Dev on TUG, and I does teh science

    Follow me on the twitters, why not? @inoritewtf
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    edited June 2016
    That video looks appalling. It's not a game, mate, you say so yourself. It's a ... concept demo, though fuck knows what the concept actually is. I can't hear the audio. I've refrained from commenting on it out of characteristic politeness. Really, there are videos from 2013 where your game looked better. I know it's not about what it looks like but your amazing technology blah blah blah. But everything you've posted just makes it look like you've gone backwards. How you're going to get from that to a working alpha for December without sweatshop labour, I've no clue.

    It's almost like someone walked off with all your IP in early 2015. That's impossible, right? All the Twitters going dead and the Trello stopping and the sudden cessation of visible work is just an unfortunate impression, right?

    Would you like to hear from them that we do in fact have freedom to create what we want? Validation of the project's goals? When we bring on the NEXT investors, would you feel it necessary to speak with them as well?


    Yes. Why not? You keep offering to speak to people personally rather than have any public discussion. So why can't I speak to them? Are they a bit special? Why does it all have to be through you? Is it normal for the CEO to do all of the liaison?

    You ripped off your Kickstarters and sucked up to secret offshore investors and you accuse me of "blatant disregard for my audience"? Do as you would be done by, beardy, even the fucken Victorians could spell that one out.

    As for explaining forked tongues ... sure, why not.
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    I mean, you guys are quite literally experts on gamer behaviour.

    I'm just getting my money's worth in the absence of any other game to play. I'll be done when this game stops being interesting.
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    edited June 2016
    Ino said:

    @Deadlock989 you're right, that is speculative at this point. Web tech is a powerful thing, and its something we don't want to miss out on... the concept of hardware is all converging, and it makes the most sense to make something that works with all devices, not just one.

    Browser game. Godus faith clicker. Puts real context on all the talk of micro-transactions and licensed content.

    Because that's what people in communities sound like. They talk about licenses and shit ALL THE TIME.

    We're kind of half Godus, half Fine Brothers at this point,
  • inoino REGISTERED, ADMINISTRATORS, Moderator, Developers Posts: 131 El Jefe
    @Deadlock989 with that definition of forked tongue, I don't see how it correlates to what has been said.

    It also seems very clear that we ARENT done, you have many more feelings and opinions to portray.

    And of course the game looked better previously... for two reasons. One, it was the previous version of the game and engine. Which we determined we should rebuild, so that we could give access to more hardware, instead of just those that supported DX11... its something we clearly communicated when we took the game sales down from steam, so we could finish work on the newer version. Additionally, it was in debug/dev mode... to demonstrate. It wasn't a prototype, it was a demo of progress to the team for what was happening. And I genuinely do appreciate your not leaving anything negative on that video.

    To be more clear on the games tech... its not a browser game, it is handled locally for the players/modder... its simply that it has the power to do so when web technology gets there in the next couple of years. There have been a lot of amazing examples of what web technology has accomplished in only the last couple of years, and we feel strongly that it will be the future... that's a decision we felt needed to be made for the longevity of the game and the platform.

    I offer to speak to people personally, to show that what people have to say is important. That is me, speaking for this company, that does not mean the board has to have the same sentiment. As you stated, those two seats, out of five... they don't control the board, a majority does, and its based on how they react over time to different situations, its the nature of a balanced board. And yes, there are a LOT of CEOs that make themselves available, though likely many of them don't put as much time or effort into trying to find middle grounds with dialog as we have engaged in.

    With this said, it is likely I CAN get someone who actually is on the developer relations side of things to jump in, someone who is a vet developer, that is involved with board and product direction, who sees what we do, and knows the intento of IGG, as he is the head of global business development, etc... would that be a capable compromise? This individual is more likely, than some suit who really doesn't care to take his time to satisfy these sorts of inquiries.

    More to the note of your actions vs words... lets end this with some resolve. Give us 6 months to demonstrate our projects progress, and if at that point we still have nothing to show, you can quote this thread to see if we have made any steps towards having something that shows reasonable progress. Is this acceptable to you?
    I am a Dev on TUG, and I does teh science

    Follow me on the twitters, why not? @inoritewtf
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    So it's going to be a "web technology game", when the rest of the world catches up with your amazing ideas. Browser game, web game, potato, tomato.

    You're asking me to shut up for 6 months? And then, what, I get to ... quote something? I mean, I can say yes, sure, but then I just might not, y'know? Or I might forget this whole thing ever happened and only remember in a couple of years when I see Yogcast playing your game. Who knows? I'm a gamer. We have behaviour.

    No, let's name the suits. I like suits. Put a man in a suit and his behaviour changes. You know all about that, right?

    I mean, don't put yourself out, I'm fairly self-sufficient really. Been using Google since it was invented.
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    edited June 2016
    Page 161 of this document makes for interesting reading. Two directors, three directors, they're the same order of magnitude, right?

    http://iis.quamnet.com/media/IRAnnouncement/799/EN_US/002485530-0.PDF
«1
This discussion has been closed.