What's going to happen to the people who bought TUG?

PokkinPokkin REGISTERED Posts: 4 Podling
I've heard that Tug might become free, to play, so is there some sort of system in place for compensating the people who bought it?Hopefully like a refund?

Comments

  • WingidonWingidon REGISTERED Posts: 1,128 Seed
    Or some kind of fancy cosmetic stuff, for fashion AND bragging rights.
  • PokkinPokkin REGISTERED Posts: 4 Podling
    Wingidon said:

    Or some kind of fancy cosmetic stuff, for fashion AND bragging rights.

    Well yeah, but it's been a couple years and this game hasn't progressed all that much. At this point I just want my money back.
  • WingidonWingidon REGISTERED Posts: 1,128 Seed
    If they were to bring the money back to each person that has purcharsed the alpha or beta, they'd run out of funding immediately. That's not too convenient.
  • PokkinPokkin REGISTERED Posts: 4 Podling
    That might be the case, but they should still at least make an attempt. They took almost 300,000 dollars from people and delivered a lackluster product that seems like it might not even get finished at this point. They wouldn't have to give back the kickstarter funds, and probably wouldn't anyways, if you look at Yogventures as an example of this happening before.
  • CharlockCharlock REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 293 Seed
    edited March 2016
    Fortunately for NK, not everyone who invested in the project feels the same way and I would venture to guess that the fraction of folks who expect a refund is comparatively small. If you want your money back, I doubt it's going to be an issue, so long as you use the right avenues to pursue it.

    On a related note, I find it kind of funny that so many people assume that two years is a long time for game development. Especially one that is using an engine completely developed in house by a team that is exponentially smaller than one that might be working on a AAA title in a house that's been up and running for years.

    No decision has been made as far as the future of TUG goes, other than in a year we're going to have a much different looking (and probably feeling) game in front of us (the ones who stick around, that is).
    "I’ve been drunk for about a week now, and I thought it might sober me up to sit in a library."
  • Hoppa_JoelHoppa_Joel REGISTERED Posts: 191 Seed
    Development of a game takes a very long time.
    Asheron's call, took 40 months development and an additional 8 months in beta before they signed off on release. Lord of the Rings Online, was in pre-alpha development and announced in 1998 before it finally released in 2007.
    Blizzard announced in 2001 they were building World of Warcraft, they bought liscence to the game engine developed by Turbine ( through Microsoft, as did another game called Ryzom ) and took roughly 5 years to develop before release. Everquest "announced" development in 1996 and released in 1999. Announced usually means by the time it gets to announced they got something to show investors ( Sony ) So I think it was in development a lot longer.
    Ultima Online the grampa, was announced in 1995 and a promo release in 1996 and official release in 1997. I beta tested UO AC AC2 LOTRO DDO Ryzom and a few others not worth mentioning.

    DDO ( Dungeons and dragons online ) was sort of a surprise, Turbine had the game engine ( which consequently was the base for all these other games minus a couple ) and had been working sorta quietly on DDO, it was announced in August 2005 and released in January 2006.. However thye'd been in works with the D&D guys for a couple years at that point. The game engine for DDO, which was the Asheron's call 2 engine, was very solid/stable which lead to a very easy release for DDO.
    Making a game takes time.

  • WingidonWingidon REGISTERED Posts: 1,128 Seed
    TF2 took 9 years of development, but it was worth the wait.

    Now, NerdKingdom has to do with a team whose size is inversely proportional to their task's size, so naturally it'll take just a little eternity, but it will happen.
  • Hoppa_JoelHoppa_Joel REGISTERED Posts: 191 Seed
    also, the earlier games I mentioned dealt with very very basic ( UO was 2d ) that in itself s less time consuming.
  • PokkinPokkin REGISTERED Posts: 4 Podling
    Those are all pretty good points, but if it goes free to play I would still want my money back
  • Hoppa_JoelHoppa_Joel REGISTERED Posts: 191 Seed
    I dont know why, since most games that are free to play still cost with an initial purchase.
  • CharlockCharlock REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 293 Seed
    It's the Steam culture. It seems like any excuse at all is reason for a refund nowadays.
    "I’ve been drunk for about a week now, and I thought it might sober me up to sit in a library."
  • Random_GamerRandom_Gamer REGISTERED Posts: 7 Podling
    Charlock said:

    Fortunately for NK, not everyone who invested in the project feels the same way and I would venture to guess that the fraction of folks who expect a refund is comparatively small. If you want your money back, I doubt it's going to be an issue, so long as you use the right avenues to pursue it.

    On a related note, I find it kind of funny that so many people assume that two years is a long time for game development. Especially one that is using an engine completely developed in house by a team that is exponentially smaller than one that might be working on a AAA title in a house that's been up and running for years.

    No decision has been made as far as the future of TUG goes, other than in a year we're going to have a much different looking (and probably feeling) game in front of us (the ones who stick around, that is).

    Check my *dev interview*on my youtube channel (which can also be found on other sections of this forum)... now i hope most of peoples questions have been answered ? :)
  • clearwatersclearwaters REGISTERED Posts: 10 Seed
    I'd be cool with beta testing gear XD
    I drew my avatar. Please don't steal it!
  • NordKittenNordKitten REGISTERED Posts: 4 Podling
    I just want to know something, im usually happy with it just doing its thing and checking on the progress every few months. but when i checked suddenly it was free (even after one of the discussion update on seam said they would be waiting a year before they did anything), the steam reviews are the worst i have ever seen on any game, and it seams like the game is hemorrhaging on its last legs, free to play is a scary thought, it means they aren't getting the money they need and they are hoping for an increase from trying to implement micro transactions. To top it all off i haven't really seen an attempt to explain whats going on, whats going to happen to backers or people who played, how payed mods will work or how they plan on making any money otherwise. if they don't know how to handle that then why on earth are they going free to play before there plans are figured out? it makes little seance ether for business, publicity, or development and it really makes me afraid that this game is just going to die out.
  • CharlockCharlock REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 293 Seed
    Well, first off, it's not currently free. It's not available at all on the Steam store, in any way. No decision has been made, officially, on whether the "finished product," by which I mean TUG 2.0, will be free to everyone OR if it will allow modders to choose to attempt to sell their custom content.

    If you can wade through all of the garbage on the Steam forum, you'll find plenty of information from the actual development team and not just hearsay from angry gamers. They cover a lot of their own opinions, as well as information behind the thought process of POTENTIALLY making the base game free. I don't think microtransactions are in the cards, anywhere.

    I could be wrong, as I've completely given up on the Steam community at this point and kind of wish NK hadn't chosen that terrible platform to showcase this project.
    "I’ve been drunk for about a week now, and I thought it might sober me up to sit in a library."
  • CobellCobell REGISTERED, GLOBAL_MODERATORS, ADMINISTRATORS, Developers Posts: 84 Developer
    edited June 2016
    Ino wants to answer this, but he's a bit busy at E3. He'll pop in and reply once he's back.
  • RawrRawr REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 510 Seed
    Charlock said:

    I could be wrong, as I've completely given up on the Steam community at this point and kind of wish NK hadn't chosen that terrible platform to showcase this project.

    I totally get this but I still want to have hope that the steam community will change their minds after the next release.
    Programmer, designer, artist.
  • CharlockCharlock REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 293 Seed
    Cobell said:

    Ino wants to answer this, but he's a bit busy at E3. He'll pop in and reply once he's back.

    Thanks, Cobell. I'm anxious to hear from Ino.
    "I’ve been drunk for about a week now, and I thought it might sober me up to sit in a library."
  • CharlockCharlock REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 293 Seed
    Rawr said:

    Charlock said:

    I could be wrong, as I've completely given up on the Steam community at this point and kind of wish NK hadn't chosen that terrible platform to showcase this project.

    I totally get this but I still want to have hope that the steam community will change their minds after the next release.
    Yeah, Rawr. I am hopeful too, don't get me wrong. Also, once we do get a playable version of the new game, we should remind everyone with an interest to go back to Steam and update their reviews or create one, if they haven't already.
    "I’ve been drunk for about a week now, and I thought it might sober me up to sit in a library."
  • RawrRawr REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 510 Seed
    I probably should write a review one of these days, perhaps aspiring to be the most helpful one out there.
    Programmer, designer, artist.
  • inoino REGISTERED Posts: 131
    edited June 2016
    @Pokkin i'd like to first address the comment of the game not going very far...

    I totally agree, it certainly has not. But please keep in mind, its always been much more than a game, it was simply easier to articulate the project as a "game". We have a lot of big goals with this technology, and we are already doing things with this engine, that even things like unity and unreal cannot do. Much of it may seem like technology word vomit, but when we get to a point where we start talking about it, it will change the way that games/mods are made.

    So while it may not seem like a lot for you, we have teams working on some of the most advanced behavioral data systems (that every player and modder will have access to, as well), distribution system, payments system (no, not because of paid mods, which we are still unclear on), accounts systems, nodal/visual scripting tools, actual engine/components (AI, Physics, Animations, etc), gameplay systems (logic, building, AI layer), which requires thousands of man hours, and a very dedicated team of ~50 devs... And there is some REALLY cool stuff that our tech is doing, that I want to really take time to create communication to explain its impact for us, modders, and players.

    @NordKitten yea, that's all hearsay. We have never committed to any of these things either way... but like we always have done, we wanted to create open and honest dialog about this thinking to see if it could work. Sadly, "FREE" has so many negative connotations, from toxic players, to money grubbing developers. But those aren't the ONLY ways of doing it.

    It's not a question of money, we have awesome investors, 8.5 million this round, and likely ~20 million in the next round if we feel we want to take it to keep advancing... and we just may. Because when you take a step back and look at what we are building, its basically our own steam. To allow us build systems that we know are important for us, that steam just doesn't offer or care about. And around a platform that creates dialog, not just forum fodder. We need to rethink what games and community are, since they are the core of what we are building.

    On the topic of timing, some games can take years... its typical for commercial to take around 5 years. And those guys are not even building all the things we are building. And that's ok, because we don't need EVERY game feature done, just some of the most important, that have the biggest impact. The world and experience will expand over time.

    On the topic of free, it's likely we WON'T do it at this point, but only because of the concept of toxicity, and no other reason. Because it's also very likely that we will also make it very easy for people in the community to invite their friends for free, and give keys away. For those that bought EARLY, from KS, or Paypal, or Steam, we do have things that are going to them specifically, that others wont get. And we wont make those things available again.

    On the topic of MtX (microtransactions), SURE! We have talked about this in the past, but the thinking is aesthetics... not game changing/altering items. Variation of armor, of companion, or mount, of furniture, etc... THIS way, it means we have to do a good job to make a game experience and community so powerful, that you care enough to buy something you don't need. And it must be so beautiful, you feel compelled to have it there during your playing experience. No tricks no gimmicks... This way, we can continue to support TUG, for as long as the community wants it to be supported.

    And if you are already flipping the F*&K out about MtX in a paid game... forget I said MtX, and call them pledges, to show interest in supporting our work, and continuing on with TUG.

    Paid mods will 99% not happen, unless something occurs that makes me think dramatically differently. but to be clear, the process we had internally been discussing would have been a lot to do with quality control... proven modders, make powerful content, then when they prove themselves to us and community, they could get some dev support, to make that mod into something better, while still keeping older versions available for users.

    With THAT said, it does not mean we won't find AMAZING mods, who change the game, or add so much, I won't turn around and consider turning it into DLC. This is still just thinking, and to be clear on this, their mod still exists, its simply that a AAA version of it will also exist for some nominal cost. Sorry, I know the idea of spending money on things is not fun, but despite the "modders should not be paid" debacle, if we place time and money into a person, to make something amazing, he should be rewarded, and we, as the investor in their work, should also see an upside... which allows us to invest more and more into our community.
    I am a Dev on TUG, and I does teh science

    Follow me on the twitters, why not? @inoritewtf
  • WingidonWingidon REGISTERED Posts: 1,128 Seed
    edited June 2016

    (finally a chance to use that picture)

    Only thing I feel like commenting upon is the idea of exclusive kickstarter/paypal/steam stuff. It feels bittersweet to me. Sweet since I get fancy stuff as an appreciation for my early payment, but bitter because it's something many won't ever get it themselves legitimately.

    I get extra fancy stuff, though. Fancy stuff is great.
  • PixelDragon13PixelDragon13 REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 114 Seed
    There is always a possibility to get donated some money, right? :tongue:
    TUG Modder
    Twitter: @IKStreamIvo
    YouTube: IKStream!
    Site: Pixel's Web
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    Pokkin said:

    I've heard that Tug might become free, to play, so is there some sort of system in place for compensating the people who bought it?Hopefully like a refund?

    Nothing. Fuck all. You've been fleeced. Some hipster twat will drive in circles talking into his GoPro and use a lot of words like "incentivising" to explain away how they spent your money on frappucinos and black T-shirts. You're seeing fuck all from your investment, you may as well have just pissed the money away, except that at least that would have given you some fleeting sensation. Good luck mate, welcome to the world of crowd-funded lies and bullshit.
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed
    But it's fine that lazy cunts stole your money and have achieved fuck all with it, because it was MUCH MORE THAN A GAME all along. Right? That's what the working classes say to their bosses when they've pissed around achieving nothing after several years graft, right?
  • Deadlock989Deadlock989 REGISTERED Posts: 72 Seed

    Check my *dev interview*on my youtube channel (which can also be found on other sections of this forum)... now i hope most of peoples questions have been answered ? :)

    I didn't last two minutes. That's some painful car crash shit right there.
  • NorthwindNorthwind REGISTERED Posts: 20 Seed
    Hey guy i recently got rid of Steam and discord and am not in a situation where i will be reinstalling them so i have been out of touch with the progress of the game. My question is that if i don't have steam anymore can i still get the new build of TUG?. how can i do this?
  • RawrRawr REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 510 Seed
    If you have an account with NK then theres a link on the accounts page to download their launcher.
    Programmer, designer, artist.
  • NorthwindNorthwind REGISTERED Posts: 20 Seed
    the email i used to create the account has been deactivated and i dont remember my password. :( what do i do?
  • CharlockCharlock REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 293 Seed
    Contact the support team at [email protected] I'm positive someone on the team can help you.
    "I’ve been drunk for about a week now, and I thought it might sober me up to sit in a library."
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