Terrain modification in "adventure mode"?

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  • inoino REGISTERED, ADMINISTRATORS, Moderator, Developers Posts: 131 El Jefe
    @Hoppa_Joel We actually discussed something very similar to this, but the other consideration is costs being very high on server side to store this sort of stuff. So instead, what may work best, is to allow players to host their own creative worlds from their own machines, and let them list and share them with tools or systems we create. Those worlds could have whatever rules they wanted turned on or off by the users and their community. And on the other side of that, the adventure mode type of gameplay, would be something that could be handled locally, or on our own servers with not nearly as much cost, since we would control what did and did not work, and could optimize for it accordingly.
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  • NorthwindNorthwind REGISTERED Posts: 20 Seed
    Ok so now i am picturing a survival game like ARK but instead of being limited to only building structures out of thatch, wood, stone, metal. I can build structures out of my own models that i made from voxels and imported from a creative mode type tool set. Am i accurate in my thinking? because if this is the case I could live with this if it means rad dungeon and cave spawns with intelligent AI to fight in them. Tho I will miss altering the landscape if i can at least build off the landscape with my own creations that would be good enuf to keep my attention. I am picturing a system where it is like you have a 12x4x12 voxel area to design a small wall or something. You can make the wall out of any types of voxels there are in the game example: dirt, stone, moss, obsidian, gold or all of them. Once you are in the game (lets call it adventure mode) rather then mine voxels off the landscape and place them down block by block. You gather the resources needed to build that wall from nodes ( Dirt, Stone, Moss, Obsidian, and gold) and place your pre designed wall on the landscape. If you guys are awesome enuf to create a system like that I think that you are on to something and I would change my nasty review on steam .
  • inoino REGISTERED, ADMINISTRATORS, Moderator, Developers Posts: 131 El Jefe
    Well, I was initially talking about how you could use the voxel/creative mode to make entire maps, to share with others, for PVP, or adventures, etc... but yea this is something we plan on doing in the future. Especially since it is a fairly powerful development tool for modders and developers across the board.
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  • RawrRawr REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 503 Seed
    Interesting. I was thinking more along the lines of playing lego's with objects as appose to voxels.
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  • Youngy798Youngy798 REGISTERED Posts: 905 Seed
    I think to me and many others on the forum, one of the huge appeals of TUG was that we would be able to really shape the world to our liking. Building huge cities, tunnels, roads, mines etc.

    I think the problem with these object based worlds is that you never really feel part of them fully. Rust is a good example, you can make some pretty interesting stuff, but everything is above ground. You will never be able to build your own mine or underground tunnel system. Everything ends up having a similar aesthetic as well. Another problem I see is that building may be a pain in the ass with prefab pieces. With TUG's crafting how it is at the moment you would have to spend ages experimenting with lots of different crafting recipes to find the different building 'blocks' you want to use.

    IMO I value player interaction and building over AI and mobs. To me mobs are just a way to provide resources to the player in an interactive way. Like having to chase a goat for food, instead of just harvesting a stationary food source like a cabbage plant. Obviously others will value mobs and creatures more.

    What I wish most for in TUG is:

    - Large servers (around 50 players)
    - World interaction (mining, building etc)
    - Player interaction

    Object based building might be cool, I guess I would have to see how it is done.

    I think the main appeal of TUG during its kickstarter and early access was the idea that you can dig and build anything in the world, I think confining people to simply sticking things on top of the landscape would be a step backwards.
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  • CharlockCharlock REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 293 Seed
    What if the procedural cave systems are implemented again? Would that have any affect on opinions about this proposed new game mode?

    Even if you couldn't necessarily create the caves on your own, there would still be an access point to the underground caverns, mazes and any number of other subterranean secrets.
    "I’ve been drunk for about a week now, and I thought it might sober me up to sit in a library."
  • NorthwindNorthwind REGISTERED Posts: 20 Seed
    edited March 2016
    Youngy798 said:


    I think the problem with these object based worlds is that you never really feel part of them fully. Rust is a good example, you can make some pretty interesting stuff, but everything is above ground. You will never be able to build your own mine or underground tunnel system. Everything ends up having a similar aesthetic as well. Another problem I see is that building may be a pain in the ass with prefab pieces. With TUG's crafting how it is at the moment you would have to spend ages experimenting with lots of different crafting recipes to find the different building 'blocks' you want to use.

    IMO I value player interaction and building over AI and mobs. To me mobs are just a way to provide resources to the player in an interactive way. Like having to chase a goat for food, instead of just harvesting a stationary food source like a cabbage plant. Obviously others will value mobs and creatures more.

    I think the main appeal of TUG during its kickstarter and early access was the idea that you can dig and build anything in the world, I think confining people to simply sticking things on top of the landscape would be a step backwards.

    I agree for the most part. Though there are games out there that are immersive that don't allow any building at all in them. It just depends on the quality of the environment and the interactions with the AI i guess.
    Would it be would be possible to place prefab rooms and stuff underground as well as above ground?. that would be a cool alternative to mining. I don't know much about game engines and developing but if it can generate caves and stuff underground then maybe it would be able to handle players placing rooms and tunnels underground as well?.
  • RawrRawr REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 503 Seed
    @Youngy798
    I agree. I wasn't meaning do away with voxel manipulation/building, I meant start with object-lego building and end up with both.
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  • Hoppa_JoelHoppa_Joel REGISTERED Posts: 191 Seed
    like those dungeon pieces from the video as an example of lego types?

    I am not sure which becomes more laggy though, voxel builds which are semi static, or lego 'sets' which are semi static. I know the massive amounts of z placed things currently become a body count, if you press f2 you can see it, and I think that attributes more than the voxel blocks. So for a majority, just having node harvesting for plants trees metals and so on, will reduce things considerably.
    there are ways of creating immersion and lore, in order to make a game without building as a whole, bring you into it and a part of it instead of just an avatar.
    Going to ramble a bit here;
    The story would have to be rich, but also not over-done with cinematics and cut scenes, because despite the medias opinion, cut scenes are annoying drawn out do not bring you into the lore and usually end up with folks clicking past it rather than watching it or if it is forced like SWTOR you just get up and leave the room and or eventually quit the game entirely because of its poor design.

    So, part of the concern that isn't spoken directly is community.
    What creates a community, and a lore.

    I think, TUG has the ability to become something unique from MMOs.
    The option to build, is just an aspect though. If TUG goes the route of MMO, then mini games ( crafting system, music system, building system etc _becomes the draw and stay to a mmo.
    When you create something that makes you feel apart of the world and or own something, then you stay.
    Crafting needs to be fun, and not too much of a grind. If a grind is introduced, some players lose interest fast.
    Some people, play for exploration.
    Now, if TUG will have an overworld, then that means Devs will build cool places to explore, so that is one check.
    The Crafting system is good, and can become greater, lua scripting also will provide a niche.
    If a music system is added this will grab another group.

    As for lore, and how this should be handled. I'd say, create the 'facts' and physics. and let the lore be created by the players.
    what I mean, is, say we have a knowledge that the mushroom men are "X" example which is a fact.
    However, a seedling that doesn't know this piece of information may create a theory, and then that 'legend' can grow.
    So, what if in the case of lore, we have a library in the main world, you can go in and read about this or that. or you can go in, and submit a book to the librarian.
    The Librarian NPC takes the book, which then could be reviewed at some point by dev staff dm staff, and if it is not vulgar but actually has merit, then it becomes part of the library.

    That way, you've just created a piece of lore. Lore isnt always factual, but it can shape a world and its growth.
  • RawrRawr REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 503 Seed
    Exactly like those dungeon pieces.
    And featuring it together with what johnny did with his conveyor belts where pieces will snap together.

    lua scripting also will provide a niche.

    lol lua scripting is how someone will create an entirely new game

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  • elitetwin2elitetwin2 REGISTERED Posts: 3 Podling
    I'm up for this 100%. All games need change to reach their full potential. Even though people might not like the idea of it, If this becomes a reality they might support it.
  • jon14ukjon14uk REGISTERED Posts: 782 Seed
    When I first started to follow you all back during the kickstarter I was most interested in building things. I remember seeing that music cartoon and how they built that town from scratch and it made me so excited to build my own. I mean so many of us wanted to build towns cities and great empires I just cant see that happening if we cant alter the terrain. I maybe could get behind a bunch of parts that can lock together to make buildings. Only two ways that would work for me is if there are lots of building parts and lots of variations to each part. Second some way to flatten and level land I mean you have to have some way or it just cant work. what I understand is we will just be making leaf stick shacks clipping into hilly landscapes with no flat places at all except for a couple .
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  • jon14ukjon14uk REGISTERED Posts: 782 Seed
    I guess I could see something like fallout 4
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  • inoino REGISTERED, ADMINISTRATORS, Moderator, Developers Posts: 131 El Jefe
    @Youngy798 keep in mind, that AI also has to do with NPCs in the world, as well as companions, not just mobs and things to beat up for materials, but things that have the potential to create meaningful or interesting connections with.

    @Northwind There is no reason why things cannot be placed anywhere within the world, so long as that area would already exist. So a cavern, cave, or tunnel must exist, in order to inhabit them. And it would be up to the player to block those areas off for safety. This is also an element that I would find personally interesting in play, people that adapt to their environments to "survive" and later thrive in the world, as opposed to just digging up and building for security on the outset.

    As for the crafting, there is a good chance it will change from what it currently is. We have to pick and chose what we want to hold the complexity, the early, or late game... and breaking apart the consistency for more "complex" things in the future, the current system may not scale well. Though, we still have some neat ideas to keep it interesting, also leveraging AI and Logic Systems in the future. We will discuss some of our thoughts once we get closer to designing them out.
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  • NorthwindNorthwind REGISTERED Posts: 20 Seed
    I was more thinking along the lines of making you own underground rooms buy placing prefab rooms in the solid ground.
  • WingidonWingidon REGISTERED Posts: 1,128 Seed
    You'll cross those bridges when you get to them.

    Anyway. As you have described it, it sound good to me. Then again, how is somebody going to make a cave with just a puny shovel and pickaxe?
    And yeah, I can see the current crafting system having it's potential complications.
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  • Random_GamerRandom_Gamer REGISTERED Posts: 7 Podling
    i read a few posts, don't know if it has been asked yet (a lot of room per page :/)

    But... if ou are meaning in the sense of... In creative mode, that's where you can go wild, dig your hermit caves... build the nature ETC... but then in*adventure mode* it is purely that?

    I.e Adventure mode = RPG style game ; where the *player/customer* can play the *vanilla* game as an RPG ADVENTURE? (everything is hard-standing/un-modifiable unless mining to improve/upgrade Sword etc + you little adventurers tent to carry with you?)... or maybe even *load a mod* some one created (like an Adventure, rescue the king/princess scenario etc... which would be *downloadable* from a modder?

    then i agree or have i missed the point completely?
  • Random_GamerRandom_Gamer REGISTERED Posts: 7 Podling
    oh i see.. it's also because of *pathing* issues?
  • RawrRawr REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 503 Seed
    Not necessarily, calculating through neural networks is costly too.
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  • ZakeZake REGISTERED Posts: 216 Seed
    Late to the party, but I think I'm for it. Aside from the aforementioned performance concerns, I think it's crucial to consider what is the most important aspect of this game. While I love the idea of a 'grown-up Minecraft' I think personally the potential RPG and MMO aspects of this game. I'd love to be able to walk up to a town/castle bustling with players and interact with them, then go and explore whatever adventures await in the wilderness. But as much as I also want to be able to do voxel building, I think the instant modification of the environment creates inherent conflicts. Consider how easy it is to storm a castle or explore a ruin if you can bore a hole through the wall in five seconds.

    I'm not really sure what this game is going to be. Years into development and I know you've only scratched the surface of what you intend to bring to the table. I think turning off voxel manipulation really allows immersive focus on the world around the player, and I think leaving it on could lead to the creation of a 'grown-up Minecraft' in which attempts at immersion and lore are stunted by the tyranny of having complete freedom to change or destroy the world willy-nilly.

    TL;DR: If an immersive world, RPG lore, and player interactions are the most important aspects of the vision of this game, then unbridled freedom to change the world will likely only hamper that vision.
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  • Hoppa_JoelHoppa_Joel REGISTERED Posts: 191 Seed
    I got RUST during humble bundle charity donation last Christmas, and decided to finally give it a try.
    I now see what you mean by this building style ( the prefabs that click in place together ) If these are in conjunction with the current voxel method TUG has I can see how this could be amazingly interesting.

    Not a fan of RUST's PVP, it is just too much a murderfest.
    But it does have some very nice visuals with sky and terrain, but it doesn't have the voxel building TUG does.
    Looking forward to the next build of TUG :)
  • ElfElf REGISTERED Posts: 70 Seed
    TUG's landscape generation would need to change - right now, there are unclimbable cliffs (and you can actually start stuck in an unclimbable valley) and a lack of level ground for building; the basic worldgen was designed with the assumption that players would be hacking away and mountains they didn't like and leveling forests to build cities. If they can no longer adjust the terrain, it needs to be a lot more build-and-travel friendly.
  • WingidonWingidon REGISTERED Posts: 1,128 Seed
    edited September 2016
    Altrough maybe there could be few specific areas meant to not be travel-friendly unless you obtain the methods to actually travel thru (parkour skills, mobility spells, mounts capable of going through), or if a traversable path is built.

    It'll be acceptable as long as it's not as ridiculous as locking you in an area rather than locking you out of a place you've never entered before.
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