Thoughts on Update #71

ValidifyedValidifyed REGISTERED Posts: 612 Seed
For those of you who have unsubbed or joined in after the kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nerdkingdom/tug-1/posts/1486460?ref=backer_project_update

(Oh, and as another header - Id like to let everyone know that if anything - I am more opinionated then I was before these days :P)

Here goes:
monetization for TUG is all about aesthetic, not gated content
Look at any game on steam that has a Free to Play status. 95% of the time the rating is "Mixed" or worse. How bad must the game be for people to hate it regardless of the fact that it was free? The truth is people dont like monotization in games, or microtransactions, or pay2win or the "f2b grind" that comes from game trying to force you into buying stuff by slowing down all non-pay progression.

Im not saying NK will do a bad job of it, but I have yet to see anyone do a decent job of it. The best example is Guild Wars 2, which does seem annoying but you can just about ignore that its there if you choose to. I highly doubt you will be able to come up with something revolutionary but we shall see (But y'know, you could ask for donations instead of payments for "Expansion"/large updates to the game - could work).

Is free-players better then fewer players? Not if the few are a strong community dedicated to the game. I shant pretend to know the minds of your PR department, but when a game gets "Finished" there is a large room for a whole storm of new reviews and YouTube videos to go out. Just make sure the hook is sharp enough before you cast the line into the river. Oh, and Graphics go a long way to grab peoples interests quickly, so get some shaders out there. A few screenshots that look as good as something like Zelda WiiU and anyone that sees a video or pic of the game will want to atleast see what its about.
quality control is first priority, not everyone can just monetize (skyrim fiasco)
Enforced monotization of mods simply does not work. Nexus had it fixed before Valve screwed up, and since then have even let mod makers choose to give every download-er a prompt to donate. I wont say something assumptive like "This works fine", what mods ive ever made have always been small private things and so I have no idea what sort of money the modders make - but there is an option available that has been "working" for years now.
(thoughts) near professional level quality to be considered
The community is here to help as always, and rather then having a review team in house you could simple pickout "Trusted reviewers" who would ultimately and communally decide which mods are "worthy", if done to a high enough standard then asking for money ahead of time for the mod would not be such a big ask (Possibly), but generally with mods people just like to try them out, see if they like them, uninstall them, use them with other mods (And hope they are compatible) - there is far more that goes into what is a "good mod" then just "Does it feel professional".

1. Will the mod have long term developmental support?
2. Will the mod team reliably deal with glitch reports?
3. Will the mod team (Who have no apparent professional obligations), avoid releasing broken/potentially malicious code?
4. And most importantly: Will they conform to ALL standardization (Such as conforming to pre-existing library, or creating new librabys under the same format if none exists - to make the mod work as flush with the game as possible - thus almost completely removing the chance that it will be the causing factor in a mod compatibility error?
No updates to DX11 TUG, but new engine getting done fast important because...
... Sigh ... I've said it before but I cant help moan about kickstarters that move to a new engine mid-development. I just have to remind myself that many AAA titles have done this in the past and the difference is we get to know everything that happens during the development and not after.





On a final note, I haven't played TUG in a while but getting the controls to be really crisp would probably go a long way to helping people play more, they take quite a while to get used to and moving from TUG to other games and back again can be a very jarring experience (IMO)

That about wraps up my opinions thread, note that opinionated people like myself inherently believe that other people give a sh*t about what we think.

Anyone with more to add feel free to add it in a reply. It would be awesome if some of the devs replied with more details or through about how they believe the motorization could go too. (Or discuss anything mentioned for that matter).

PS: Sorry for the grammar and typos, its 6am and I haven't slept yet.

TL; DR: Read it all or GTFO. Don't be lazy.

Comments

  • CharlockCharlock REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 293 Seed
    You have a lot of the same opinions of many of the people who are posting on Steam regarding the recently shared information from Nerd Kingdom. Fortunately, you've also got a decent attitude to go with it (the same cannot be said about a great deal of the posts on Steam :cry:).

    One thing I find interesting is that you mention bemoaning the idea that TUG would change engines "mid-development," which I think is a little misguided. TUG will still use the homegrown Eternus engine, it's just moving to OpenGL to allow for a wider variety of compatibility options (such as Mac and possibly Linux). This change, will also be accompanied by a new art direction, which you also mentioned as a positive.

    I think the fact that a development team that has invested as much time as Nerd Kingdom has would openly say to their community, "We're not 100% satisfied with where we're at with your alpha-phase game and we feel we can make it a heck of a lot better for all you, so we're going to make some changes" is a pretty boldly honest approach. This can be said about quite a few of the decisions NK has made in what information they share with the folks watching this project.

    I'm only going to touch on mod monetization very briefly, because frankly it's a long winded topic and I feel like I've repeated myself, in one venue or another, far too many times already. You mention that "enforced monetization" is a bad idea and, if I understand what you mean (I'm not promising I do), I would agree. The fact is that NK has already said that not all mods will be of the weight and quality required to be placed in the "store," whatever form that might take. (I say MIGHT TAKE, because the decision hasn't even been made yet.) Then you go on to define a set of rules mods should follow, which seems contradictory.

    I would submit that if you're not going to "control" the release of content in the community in one particular way, you shouldn't do it at all. That's not to say I don't agree that mods should be well supported, but if you look at any other title that has a large selection of available, third-party mods, I would venture to say that the larger percentage of those are of sub par quality. In that the development house behind the game they were made for probably wouldn't have created them and included them in the vanilla game.

    To recap, I agree with a lot of what you said, but I think there is a lot of room for compromise and I definitely think it's worth it to listen to the idea coming from NK, just as I know they're listening to the ones coming from us.

    P.S. I'm also disappointed that the DX11 version won't be getting anymore updates, but there is a dedicated group of modders actively creating content for it right now.

    P.S.S. Come back to the game. There are even a couple of multiplayer servers out there, one of which is using a mod to gather data around how people play TUG. Data dumps like those are only going to improve the end product.
    "I’ve been drunk for about a week now, and I thought it might sober me up to sit in a library."
  • ekohrmanekohrman REGISTERED Posts: 87 Seed
    Where can I see examples of the new art style? I'm fond of the current one. I hope it doesn't change radically.
    Some call me... Terella.

  • CharlockCharlock REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 293 Seed
    This is the only example of the new art direction that I'm aware of, thus far:



    It's only the deep forest biome, but it gives a general idea.
    "I’ve been drunk for about a week now, and I thought it might sober me up to sit in a library."
  • WingidonWingidon REGISTERED Posts: 1,128 Seed
    I disapproved of the new artstyle...
    Until I saw again the game's current style. Even better because what we've seen is but a work in progress.

    On the subject, with my own opinions:

    Going Free 2 Play
    I am far from fond of this idea. Games that do it right and are awarded generous reviews are games like TF2 or Warframe, and both of these games are just made for that monetization model. This is TUG, and for me, this game just cannot work as a F2P without having it's charm at huge risk. The plans on this game's future sound like too much singleplayer content for such a thing to be for free.

    Modders' money
    I have little to say on this, due to my prefearance of playing my games vanilla, with tiny modifications mostly.
    Uh... donations, perharps?

    Engine remasterization





    This might be a bit too strong of a reaction, but the plan sounds like music to me (And I found myself some music while looking up the reactions, actually).
  • ValidifyedValidifyed REGISTERED Posts: 612 Seed
    First time that I have seen the new art style, really like it but it still needs those shaders!

    Also, Obviously its all about personal preference, but I prefer a cleaner sky and clever lighting - just look at how crap fallout 4 looks without its "Foggy" depth of field preset, install the wrong ENB and the game looks like trash, but the right one just increases the amazing lightwork that the game has achieved.
  • ekohrmanekohrman REGISTERED Posts: 87 Seed
    I like the new art look. It is less realistic and more stylistic. It would make the game feel more otherworldly to me, I think.
    Some call me... Terella.

  • CharlockCharlock REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 293 Seed
    ekohrman said:

    I like the new art look. It is less realistic and more stylistic. It would make the game feel more otherworldly to me, I think.

    I agree with this entirely. The more out of this world TUG looks, the better!
    "I’ve been drunk for about a week now, and I thought it might sober me up to sit in a library."
  • RawrRawr REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 511 Seed
    edited February 2016
    On Free 2 Play
    Finish the game as initially expected via the KS and EA, figure out the models, crunch the numbers and then go for it if it all adds up. My biggest concern is if you change models now, and the numbers don't add up later... ...just avoid as much hassle down the road as possible.

    By all means, bonus points if you create a model now that suits makings this change later.

    edit: talking about business models not 3D models
    Programmer, designer, artist.
  • Hoppa_JoelHoppa_Joel REGISTERED Posts: 191 Seed
    I am hoping, those are new models to be added in, and not to replace current models.
    I really like the feel TUG has now, and I like the feel that video has too, but for different reasons.
    Together, in differnt biomes as different plantable objects oooh the things I coudl make ... hehe :)
  • ekohrmanekohrman REGISTERED Posts: 87 Seed
    With the new art style, I hope that the trees, fruits, vegetables, creatures, etc. are also 'otherworldly'. I would like to see fruit that isn't apples and oranges or even something like starfruit, but is totally from the minds of the artists. Same goes for the other plants and animals. I would love to find plants or animals and say "What that hell is that cool thing?!" The bear ram gets very close to that, as does the cabbage traps and corpse pitchers. But the goat, while very realistic, is just..you know...a goat.
    Some call me... Terella.

  • WingidonWingidon REGISTERED Posts: 1,128 Seed
    I'd personally prefer a peculiar mix of realistic and unrealistic, kind of like the uncanny valley... but in harmony. That peculiar mix of reality and fantasy, so that the "organic" mechanics fit alongside all of the weirdness.
  • egorkegork REGISTERED Posts: 139 Seed
    Thoughts:

    Cube fruit that won't roll down hills

    Caltrop Fruit that hurts you if you walk over it or try to pick it up unless you whack it with an ax first.

    Toxic fruit that is poisonous unless you cook it over a firepit first
  • WingidonWingidon REGISTERED Posts: 1,128 Seed
    Those sound interesting.

    Toxic fruits! All I can think wherever I hear of a poisonous edible I think about force-feeding stuff.

    Completely unremarkable statements aside, I approve of the idea of items that require an adequate treatment before you can actually use them. Things like these slow down the thoughts on just going around the world willy-nilly.
  • Hoppa_JoelHoppa_Joel REGISTERED Posts: 191 Seed
    Durian?
    they are spikey, they stink, and are not worth eating but people do hehe!
  • egorkegork REGISTERED Posts: 139 Seed
    edited March 2016

    Durian?
    they are spikey, they stink, and are not worth eating but people do hehe!

    Obviously when the last asteroid hit some durian seeds got flung into orbit and eventually seeded the planet
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