Telling Time....Sundials (model inc.)

DungchunkerDungchunker REGISTERED Posts: 70 Seed
edited March 2015 in Design
Telling Time. Someone on the Steam TUG Forums mentioned possible Sundials as a crude way of telling time. And i thought....oohhhh something new to model. So here is a possible design for a Sundial Watch..(why not..MC has...well a compass...that's what I'll model next!). Anyway...not sure about how one would even work in game...suppose it depends on the type of lighting the game uses or maybe something that would have to be coded in. But...I just like making models..whether there used or not. If some one can make use of it in game they are welcome to it..or any of my models for making a mod for this wonderful game.

sundial_watch_Render.png

https://sketchfab.com/models/01228e7818 ... 348e06afc6
Well, you can't make a smoothie with it!

Comments

  • DungchunkerDungchunker REGISTERED Posts: 70 Seed
    Also...being that making a watch to actually wear might be to much trouble I could model a hand held version. I figure that it would be much easier to use the attach points in the model for the hand held items...much like the torch or sword. Would work in the same fashion for a possible compass. Thoughts?
    Well, you can't make a smoothie with it!

  • PamcakesPamcakes REGISTERED, Moderator Posts: 738 Seed
    I'm thinking maybe an actual sundial stone, like a statue. I don't think there would be a way to see the sundial, if it were a watch, as there aren't any animations to bring the arm up to view it.

    That is an AWESOME model btw.
    That's a really cool shirt you have on.
  • johnycilohoklajohnycilohokla REGISTERED, Developers Posts: 283 Developer
    It is really cool, I would definitely like to see one actually working in game and that's where the difficult part start making equipable gear that will display on the character is difficult, it would need new animations and possibly changes to the seed (player) model.

    Coding a place-able version would be really easy, the handheld version would require a bit more work but it could be done with just 1 animation.
    My Blog
    jc.png
      yt.png  t.png  
  • ZakeZake REGISTERED Posts: 216 Seed
    A would LOVE to see a sundial stone. The sundial watch also, perhaps, but I'm not sure how to reconcile the absurdity of the idea with actually implementing it.
    I think more than I say and say more than I do, but I do more than I used to and plan to continue.
    TUG modder (at least in the ounce of free time that occasionally flits by)
  • DungchunkerDungchunker REGISTERED Posts: 70 Seed
    I completely agree with you all on getting the watch into game, would be allot of unneeded work to get it into game especially this early in development ( I thought about this as well shortly after completion) . So...as suggested ( It's already modeled, Unwrapped, and half textured) I have made a standalone sundial stone that is basically the stone on the watch but larger and setting upon a wood pedestal (cut log) that will simply be able to be placed in the world like a any other object. This way you can just walk up to it or place it down from your inventory and ...."see what time it is". Should have a render and a SF link up by tomorrow.
    BTW...Pamcakes, really appreciate the kind words about my modeling..thanks.
    Well, you can't make a smoothie with it!

  • ZakeZake REGISTERED Posts: 216 Seed
    Yes, I agree with Pam, that's a fantastic model. I would love to see that standalone sundial in game. As for the watch, how were you thinking of rendering the watch? Based on the sun, so you don't actually know the time but you know where the sun is without looking up, or based on the time, where it functions as a watch but the shadow is not from the sun (magic perhaps)?
    I think more than I say and say more than I do, but I do more than I used to and plan to continue.
    TUG modder (at least in the ounce of free time that occasionally flits by)
  • DungchunkerDungchunker REGISTERED Posts: 70 Seed
    Zake wrote:
    Yes, I agree with Pam, that's a fantastic model. I would love to see that standalone sundial in game. As for the watch, how were you thinking of rendering the watch? Based on the sun, so you don't actually know the time but you know where the sun is without looking up, or based on the time, where it functions as a watch but the shadow is not from the sun (magic perhaps)?


    Wasn't sure on how it would work...I really didn't believe that it would work with the Games world lighting. In the end it will probably have to be done with an animated shadow that corresponds to the games internal time (not even sure how that would work..not a coder...just models and textures). Any Who....Here is the WIP (Textures are far from done) for my Sundial_Stand which is in the works...May still redo how the base and the dial itself to look a little different...add some branch stubs to the Wood base and such. I did this in a few hours ....sooo.

    Sundial_Stand_Ren_1stpass.png
    Well, you can't make a smoothie with it!

  • ZakeZake REGISTERED Posts: 216 Seed
    I think an animated shadow would be easiest to do, then have the object always place such that noon faces north.

    As for the sundial watch, we can have it do the same thing, just an animated texture represent an animated shadow.

    My comment on the absurdity of the watch wasn't that it's impossible to implement, it's that a real-life sundial watch only works if the wearer is perfectly level and faces perfectly north. But in the game you can have the animated texture on the watch reflect the time even if the wearer isn't facing north, and just explain away the fact that the watch shadow doesn't match the world shadows as "magic".

    So the question is, does the game support animated textures? If so, this will be easy to do, easy enough that even I should be able to.
    I think more than I say and say more than I do, but I do more than I used to and plan to continue.
    TUG modder (at least in the ounce of free time that occasionally flits by)
  • DungchunkerDungchunker REGISTERED Posts: 70 Seed
    Changed the Wood Texture..and added some more details (cutoff branches) and made a new normal map. I think I like how this one looks. Whatcha think?

    Sketchfab- https://skfb.ly/DoJN

    Sundial_Stand_Ren_2ndPass.png
    Well, you can't make a smoothie with it!

  • ZakeZake REGISTERED Posts: 216 Seed
    That is beautiful. It won't be hard to bring that into the game, just needs a data file. Hard part might be animating that shadow. I wish I had more time in my life, I would love to help more with this.

    Basically you just need to make a data file similar to the other rocks and plants in the game, point the data file to the texture and model, and store it in the Mods folder.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing texture animation is not yet supported. Can we run a script that refreshes the texture every game hour or so? WorldService:NKGetMilitaryTime can be used to get the in-game time of day.

    EDIT: Eternus API also gives us NKGetSunPosition which we could use to draw the shadow explicitly. Can we use a billboard shader for this?
    I think more than I say and say more than I do, but I do more than I used to and plan to continue.
    TUG modder (at least in the ounce of free time that occasionally flits by)
  • DungchunkerDungchunker REGISTERED Posts: 70 Seed
    What about animating the shadow in Blender using the spot light (just making an animation of the shadow moving across the stand as i move the "spot light" around it on a constraint? this would also record the lighting across the model as well though. Could that be possible, then slow down the animation to match game time..and I suppose i would have to work out how to go about making the animation start at the right point given the in game time.
    Would this take to many Keys to do (given that it can start with the proper game time) or would it be possible to have it stop say..Mid key in the animation sequence? Not sure about all this..not real fluent on animations and there limitations yet.
    Well, you can't make a smoothie with it!

  • ZakeZake REGISTERED Posts: 216 Seed
    I have no knowledge of animation but it seems doable. Can an animation be started at any point in its sequence? If so, could just check the game time when it gets spawned in and go to that point in the animation.

    Are you planning on both sun and moon shadows, or just leaving it dim at night?
    I think more than I say and say more than I do, but I do more than I used to and plan to continue.
    TUG modder (at least in the ounce of free time that occasionally flits by)
  • DungchunkerDungchunker REGISTERED Posts: 70 Seed
    Yes...animations should be able to be started and stopped at any point in the animation sequence...however that goes back to my concern about "Keying Frames" when you make an animation you have a start point (1st Key frame) and and end (last key frame) the time scale between these key frames determines the default speed (how many "frames of motion) at which the animations moves. so you may have start at 1 and end at say...50, that gives you 50 frames. If you stop the animation I would assume it would stop in one of these frames...I suppose i would need to figure out just how many frames i would need (the fewer the better i would assume) to at least give a reasonable shadow based on time in the game. So basically each frame could represent a set time in the game (ex" each frame=5 min ..or something like that). As i stated before i have a very rudamentry understanding of making animations...so kinda hoping someone else reads this soon with some insight on this...or maybe even has time to do it...other wise I will give it my best.

    As for Night time...yes..well have the moon light shadow (same shadow at this point though) I know that if i don't have it show time at night as well...then there will be ALLOT of people in the community asking for it in the end...so may as well do it from the start.
    Well, you can't make a smoothie with it!

  • RawrRawr REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 503 Seed
    --Time is 2400 hour.
    if time < 0800 or time > 2000:
    --set key frame to night time
    else:
    --divide daytime into even sections and set key frame to correspond.

    To start with anyway.
    Programmer, designer, artist.
  • SigilSigil REGISTERED, Developers Posts: 678 Developer
    Hey Dungchunker, you asked about animations? So I just want to say right off the bat you're doing something I'm pretty sure the engine doesn't have the functionality for. Firstly because we don't have access to the animation rig to correctly make new animations. Of the animations I made, I had also made the rig for the model meaning I had all the exports in the same manner leaving less room for errors, and in my experiments with trying to replace the Seed, there are a lot of things that can go wrong. Secondly this would require adding or connecting new bones which is a complex process which can easily go wrong, adds more complexity to the rig then is safe for good performance, and would mean that any changes NK makes to their own rig would make your version obsolete and break the animations. If you're a skilled programmer and know your way around rigging you might be able to get it in but it wouldn't be easy.

    Some other details: all frames are keyframes. That's the only way to export fbx to TUG currently. I wouldn't recommend trying to match the time it to the whole day that would be a very long animation. I'm pretty sure you can't currently jump to a specific frame, however if you could, having 60-120 frames would probably work quite well.

    Sorry for being a downer, it really is a cool idea, it's just pretty difficult. If you wait a while, things like animating textures and texture switching will eventually be added and this kind of thing could be possible.
  • DungchunkerDungchunker REGISTERED Posts: 70 Seed
    Thanks for your feedback Sigil. Those were concerns i was having about the engines limitations at the moment. And primarily modding KSP since v0.18 (where i started modding) i went through the whole having to go back and change things with my mods on a regular basis to keep them working in game with each consecutive update..takes allot of dedication to the project. I just enjoy modeling, and this game has inspired me to make models (whether i can make them work or not). Well, may put this on the back burner for the moment and go back to modeling other world objects for TUG i have already started on.
    Well, you can't make a smoothie with it!

  • SigilSigil REGISTERED, Developers Posts: 678 Developer
    Cheers man. Good luck to you. :)
  • CharlockCharlock REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 293 Seed
    Hey DC!

    I already voiced my love of the watch and the standalone sundial on Steam, but man.. I gotta say it again. These models are fantastic. Good work, my friend.

    Are you considering creating the data file to get the model for the standalone into the game, before you work out the mechanics? Even without the actual ability to tell the time from the stone, I think this thing would look sick in game, as it is.
    "I’ve been drunk for about a week now, and I thought it might sober me up to sit in a library."
  • JetcutterJetcutter REGISTERED Posts: 7 Podling
    Pamcakes said:

    I'm thinking maybe an actual sundial stone, like a statue. I don't think there would be a way to see the sundial, if it were a watch, as there aren't any animations to bring the arm up to view it.



    That is an AWESOME model btw.

    Pamcakes, I think you nailed the answer here.
    Opinion only!

Sign In or Register to comment.