Seed aging playing into technology advancement?

BailweBailwe REGISTERED Posts: 3
edited September 2014 in Community
From what I've heard, the seed will age as the player progresses through technology. Now this is a very cool idea, however there could be other implications for this. For example, as your seed ages, the hunger and energy bars could become smaller, requiring more food and rest. This would play nicely with the fact that you would have a steadier food supply and would have beasts of burden (or golems, IDK what's planned) to perform tasks for you.

I feel like there should be at least some incentive to staying in a less advanced stage of tech, especially in multiplayer. For me at least, it's not fun when you join a server and someone has the highest level tools and just owns everyone (i.e. Day-Z or Minecraft pvp servers). If you were in the stone age, you would have a physical advantage over someone that is more progressed, although they would have better tools. Also, interactions between hunter-gatherers and, say, medieval knights would be really cool in multiplayer.

Cheers, ;)

Comments

  • RinRin REGISTERED Posts: 668 Seed
    this is the first i've actually heard of this. do you have a source you can site?
    the closest i've heard to this is that the game will progress as a whole. this means that the tech will advance, as the mechanics advance, as the seeds age and maturity grow, and as the world becomes more and more populated. like how we are advancing through the ages, and the engine is undergoing overhauls, and we just reached bronze age tools?
    the concept of aging though has been discussed, though no-one brought up the reduction of energy and food requirements, at least not to my knowledge. i'm not really sure what to make of your ideas though.
    Warthunder, TUG and world of tanks fan/beta tester.
    member of The Lemurian empire and the Merchants guild
    Soon to be alchemist/apothecary in TUG
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  • TestamentofTestamentof REGISTERED Posts: 1,234 Seed
    Rin wrote:
    this is the first i've actually heard of this. do you have a source you can site?

    There's actually a Kickstarter Update on this very subject, here's the link.

    Here's also the update on how food may affect your seed's appearance and abilities: link.

    The reduction of the bars isn't something I've heard the Devs discuss, so I would assume it's a theory/hypothesis that Bailwe has come up with. It's something that could be counteracted by having exercise or certain foods/potions gradually increase the bars. That's not something that has been made mention of by the Devs.
    The Machine is on....

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  • PamcakesPamcakes REGISTERED Posts: 738
    Rin wrote:
    this is the first i've actually heard of this. do you have a source you can site?

    There's actually a Kickstarter Update on this very subject, here's the link.

    Here's also the update on how food may affect your seed's appearance and abilities: link.

    Thank you for posting those, I was about too. But I don't see how the reduction of the bars would help any, especially since you need food and stamina to do things, to help shape your body and such. If you're starving all the time, you wont really have a chance to get fat unless you're a couch potato. Right?
    That's a really cool shirt you have on.
  • BailweBailwe REGISTERED Posts: 3
    Yes, the bar reduction was something I came up with myself. I didn't mean to phrase it in a way that seemed "dev confirmed". The aging thing is true though according to the Kickstarter.
  • Hoppa_JoelHoppa_Joel REGISTERED Posts: 191 Seed
    I am hoping we have some control over where we "stop" our seed from either getting too fat, or too thin, or too much muscle mass etc.
    For example, in other games I am extremely disappointed many do not have a fat option. 'They may have an idealists view of a bulky person, but these in game characters are not fat.
    I personally am a big guy, which I have no problem with. I would not mind being represented in game by seeing a bit of a gut on my characters. Its realistic.
    I personally in real life work very hard, a lot of physical labour, but, I am always still a but fat.
    I am hoping in game, we don't always have this idealists vision of perfection so many games present now a days. If I want to be fat in game, I hope I can simply start out with a few extra pounds :)
    Likewise if I want to be thin, start out with a few less pounds.
    My concern is that by mining or tree chopping pretty soon we will all look exactly the same like some prime athletic specimen, which is not what I feel would best represent me or my role I'd like to play.
    While of course I could always force feed my seed, that may not always be something available, finding easy food items.
    Aging too becomes a similar issue.
    Getting too "tall" from aging, can destroy the work you've done on structures.
    And while I don't mind my characters in some cases looking old, other characters I might not want to age too far. And I certainly don't want my seed to die of old age. that would be a huge disappointment.

    I realize that mods may be the ultimate solution for this. I am hoping we do keep some options in a semi locked location on our character some where though to prevent too much of loss of personal preferences in our looks, and not all of us looking the same physical shape.

    edit to add:

    perhaps, dna and genetics could play a part in the basic make up of your seed.
    in the same case we have "world seed" generation, the player seeds could have a dna code structure that would inherently be the make up for the seed.
    While I know TUG wants to keep options open and keep things a mystery, perhaps if there is a "parent" seed, then there should be genetic traits handed down.
    So, for example, at a character generation perhaps you have parent x and parent y "creation" You actually set what your parents look like, then those traits are randomized and filtered into your seed's gene code.
    This would mean My Seed will not look like your seed even from the start, but also I would not fully have control over what my seed does look like, and will look like.

    This probably would not be an easy task to code. So might not be possible.

    Will elements of your environment also effect your growth?

    For example, your seed works only as a miner and smith, will they take on a ruddy earthen colouration?

    If your seed moves into a bamboo forest and lives there all their life, will their skin take on a green completion and make them more willowy?

    Likewise deserts, and a sandy colouration, and perhaps reptilian?

    I know this is a lot of questions, but how much will environment, and genetics play in your seeds advancement?
  • RinRin REGISTERED Posts: 668 Seed
    Rin wrote:
    this is the first i've actually heard of this. do you have a source you can site?

    There's actually a Kickstarter Update on this very subject, here's the link.

    Here's also the update on how food may affect your seed's appearance and abilities: link.

    The reduction of the bars isn't something I've heard the Devs discuss, so I would assume it's a theory/hypothesis that Bailwe has come up with. It's something that could be counteracted by having exercise or certain foods/potions gradually increase the bars. That's not something that has been made mention of by the Devs.
    yes, i remember that one. i don't remember where
    the seed will age as the player progresses through technology.
    pops up in that, nor can i find it. i know we will age as the game goes on in terms of the actual game, not beta - release, but i can't find any reference to it being linked to what developmental stage you are in technology wise, besides the obvious fact that progressing in tech will take time, and growing will take time. that's where i am stuck on this, as it is to be really blunt, a really weird idea to have cave-children running around while really old end-tech people are walking around.
    Warthunder, TUG and world of tanks fan/beta tester.
    member of The Lemurian empire and the Merchants guild
    Soon to be alchemist/apothecary in TUG
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  • PamcakesPamcakes REGISTERED Posts: 738
    HOPPA JOEL!
    Hoppa_Joel wrote:
    I am hoping we have some control over where we "stop" our seed from either getting too fat, or too thin, or too much muscle mass etc.
    Just like in IRL, there will be a diet of sorts and an exercise routine to go by, if you want to stay fit. You'll have to be careful with some foods, as some might be high in fat (good for long trips maybe?) and things like that. I believe they're going to stick with not showing any stats; just lettings us figure it our by our selves.
    But they might have to accommodate just a little if it's a huge want...like with the new nameplate UI's.
    Hoppa_Joel wrote:
    My concern is that by mining or tree chopping pretty soon we will all look exactly the same like some prime athletic specimen, which is not what I feel would best represent me or my role I'd like to play.
    If you are a blacksmith, you might be a pretty stay-in-one-place kind of guy. Requiring a lot fo food for energy to work on tools all day, or requiring those tools. You might get kind of chunky, but muscular at the same time. That was an example in one of the KS's explanations on the food stuff. It's the second link that Testament posted.
    Hoppa_Joel wrote:
    Aging too becomes a similar issue.
    Getting too "tall" from aging, can destroy the work you've done on structures.
    Maybe build for the future in mind? Or just live in huts for a while. Hmm...


    RIN!
    Rin wrote:
    that's where i am stuck on this, as it is to be really blunt, a really weird idea to have cave-children running around while really old end-tech people are walking around.
    Well, maybe they can be taken in by some groups who have progressed a bit and have a base/guild going. Also, I'm sure we'll have the ability to craft our own clothes/armor soon, so we can customize our seeds in that way. So, depending on what we can do, maybe we can not look so cave like. Hopefully maybe some leather pants and top...GLOVES!
    That's a really cool shirt you have on.
  • ValidifyedValidifyed REGISTERED Posts: 612 Seed
    I think the speculation of growing with tech advancement may have originated from Yogscast Lewis... I like the idea though, as well as the idea of become more "fragile" with more technology, but only if the technology is extensive enough to counter needs. It would mean players become more focused on specific technologies I think, which might be an interesting social dynamic for the game to have.
  • RinRin REGISTERED Posts: 668 Seed
    Pamcakes wrote:
    Well, maybe they can be taken in by some groups who have progressed a bit and have a base/guild going. Also, I'm sure we'll have the ability to craft our own clothes/armor soon, so we can customize our seeds in that way. So, depending on what we can do, maybe we can not look so cave like. Hopefully maybe some leather pants and top...GLOVES!

    that still doesn't logically explain having little kids running around using nothing but clubs, while only old gentlepeople run around using laser guns, with no old people using clubs or young people using laser guns. because the OP seems to say that as we advance in tech, we grow up. so in stone age, we are as we are now, little kids. then in bronze we grow up a little, iron into teenagers, and so on. and it being a strict "if you are in stone age, you are a kid." style of doing it. which kinda removes the advantage from the new people because kids < adults, and it doesn't make sense as to why there would be no old or even middle aged cave-people, or young industrial era kids.

    i don't doubt that new players will be given some support (maybe) by further advanced seeds, i'm actually thinking of using them as little collectors for my shops ingredients in exchange for gold. or that we'll be able to customize ourselves soon. i feel kinda jerkish but that's the only way i can explain what the OP sounds like to me. and i do disagree with it if the OP is suggesting something like the scenario above, on a basis of it being an immersion breaking concept. :?
    Warthunder, TUG and world of tanks fan/beta tester.
    member of The Lemurian empire and the Merchants guild
    Soon to be alchemist/apothecary in TUG
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  • Hoppa_JoelHoppa_Joel REGISTERED Posts: 191 Seed
    Rin wrote:
    Pamcakes wrote:
    Well, maybe they can be taken in by some groups who have progressed a bit and have a base/guild going. Also, I'm sure we'll have the ability to craft our own clothes/armor soon, so we can customize our seeds in that way. So, depending on what we can do, maybe we can not look so cave like. Hopefully maybe some leather pants and top...GLOVES!

    that still doesn't logically explain having little kids running around using nothing but clubs, while only old gentlepeople run around using laser guns, with no old people using clubs or young people using laser guns. because the OP seems to say that as we advance in tech, we grow up. so in stone age, we are as we are now, little kids. then in bronze we grow up a little, iron into teenagers, and so on. and it being a strict "if you are in stone age, you are a kid." style of doing it. which kinda removes the advantage from the new people because kids < adults, and it doesn't make sense as to why there would be no old or even middle aged cave-people, or young industrial era kids.

    i don't doubt that new players will be given some support (maybe) by further advanced seeds, i'm actually thinking of using them as little collectors for my shops ingredients in exchange for gold. or that we'll be able to customize ourselves soon. i feel kinda jerkish but that's the only way i can explain what the OP sounds like to me. and i do disagree with it if the OP is suggesting something like the scenario above, on a basis of it being an immersion breaking concept. :?

    Okay here is how to look at it :)

    Your seed is just that. A seedling. A plantling not entirely mammalian, not entirely plantlife.
    Whether you are among the first planted, or the latter ones, you all start somewhere in the wilderness.

    The first to sprout will have grown up, learned more of their world, and remembered inherent knowledge.
    The later to sprout may or may not have these same inherent traits. Some will grow far away from any attempt at civilization, others may sprout close by and be discovered and aided by their kindred.

    While I am yet uncertain the biology of these creatures, ( yet, too many unanswered questions ) we do know they are seedlings.
    Seeds blow on the wind, take hold in soil, and grow.

    What we know about seeds, are that seeds can lie dormant for years, even centuries and still be planted later, as long as they were properly preserved in the right conditions, they will grow.


    It isnt that " you are a stoneage kid" It is not that at all.
    It is that our seeds are "shoots" of a larger lifeforce.
    Look at the mythos of the Avatar movie. They were all connected to the tree, all creatures.
    In a sense, your seeds are similar to that, as they have the knowledge how to use simple tools to advance to the next needed phase of tool creation and continue on from there, ( no different from a Steve in Minecraft really ) Your Seed, may be near those whom are more advanced and be helped out in that fashion, or they may be isolated, and have to use what scraps they find, to continue to grow, learn, and survive.

    It is obvious there is something with the gem or fruit or whatever it is in the hand, it is obvious there was an old life on the world long before, since there are the arcane work benches.


    What I think would be more helpful to us all to see this identity is if the seeds skins were not flesh pigmentation but rather earthy or plant coloured depending on climate and environment they first sprout in..

    Just my thoughts and speculations.
  • PamcakesPamcakes REGISTERED Posts: 738
    Pretty sure you're going to keep growing regardless of what stage you're in. We'll probably have a time frame of each age our seed will be, like say...think of Sims. Probably a much smoother transition than "*poof* I'm a different age!" Like slowly growing up, and changing shape due to what we're doing that will effect our bodies.

    Also, no I was not talking about taking in seeds just to use them as slave labor. but to actually recruit them, give them better stuff or help them progress. Or you know, players can advance their own way with no help. I agree with Hoppa about viewing our characters as actual seeds, sprouting up. If you've seen this concept art, it's totally canon. I think with that in mind, it makes total sense to see kids popping up and starting fresh, because in that universe they really are.
    That's a really cool shirt you have on.
  • RinRin REGISTERED Posts: 668 Seed
    guys, popping in is not what i am referring to. though admittedly i do a poor job at explaining my position to start with. the first paragraph of the op is what i am referring to.
    what the OP suggested, or thought the game would include, was a casual link to technological advancement and age, hence his proposition. at least as far as i understand it (i could be missing something or misinterpreting something), and that is what i am taking umbrage with. i can understand a correlative link to age and technological advancement due to the time required it takes to reach both, which should fade after the first few days of the game, but i don't want a casual link.

    an example of a casual link is something like "heh, you can't make an iron sword, you're a wimpy kid. you gotta grow up first before you can craft that." (barring obvious physical limitations, of course) or, the inverse casual link "oh, you made an iron sword, now you can grow up some more!".

    that i don't want, and that alone is what i am stuck on in his suggestion, as his suggestion makes no sense in a style like what pamcakes suggested, the smoother transition that would take place over relative in-game years, unaffected by what stage of tech we are in, because his suggestion is one of old = teched up = let's make them feel old. i don't care to see little cave-seeds running around, i expect that. what i don't expect is seeing ONLY cave children, and no cave teenagers or cave adults.
    i want to see cave teenagers or cave adults, or young highly advanced seeds that have been taken in by people. i don't want it to be "kid - bronze age, teen - iron age, adult - industrial age, old - future stuff".

    i expect people to pop up from the ground. i expect us to be shaped and changed by our environment, and grow over time. i expect to see cave children running around. i expect to see some advanced kids running around too. i expect to grow at an average, constant rate so long as we don't discover a fountain of youth. i don't expect some artificial (out of the game's logic) limitation to be introduced that prevents us from either teching too quickly, or grows us up when tech quickly.
    that, the thing i don't expect, is to me to be artificial and immersion breaking in the highest regard.

    and one last thing, it'd be more of a trade, not slave labor. i'd pay them a fair wage for their troubles to help them along. :)
    Warthunder, TUG and world of tanks fan/beta tester.
    member of The Lemurian empire and the Merchants guild
    Soon to be alchemist/apothecary in TUG
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  • PamcakesPamcakes REGISTERED Posts: 738
    very nicely explained! I really love the idea of highly advanced little seedlings running around. I bet they would look so cool.
    That's a really cool shirt you have on.
  • TheNirlTheNirl REGISTERED Posts: 46
    Even though I like the idea of technology advancement, I see the world of TUG as more of a magical than a technological environment. Which isn't to say the principles of advancing technology wouldn't apply, nor that technology is something I think takes away from the game. I just believe it would be better if the advancement relied more on fantasy elements. There are indicators that there will be some sort of logic system, with programmable stuff. I think that if we had magic to apply logic to the game, it would be much more interesting to use that instead of traditional technology. Code Spells seems to be a pretty good example of how programing magic can be very fun and very unique (and, like with all magic, the possibilities are endless).
  • RinRin REGISTERED Posts: 668 Seed
    TheNirl wrote:
    Even though I like the idea of technology advancement, I see the world of TUG as more of a magical than a technological environment. Which isn't to say the principles of advancing technology wouldn't apply, nor that technology is something I think takes away from the game. I just believe it would be better if the advancement relied more on fantasy elements. There are indicators that there will be some sort of logic system, with programmable stuff. I think that if we had magic to apply logic to the game, it would be much more interesting to use that instead of traditional technology. Code Spells seems to be a pretty good example of how programing magic can be very fun and very unique (and, like with all magic, the possibilities are endless).
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    Warthunder, TUG and world of tanks fan/beta tester.
    member of The Lemurian empire and the Merchants guild
    Soon to be alchemist/apothecary in TUG
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  • Re EvolutionRe Evolution REGISTERED Posts: 1,105 Seed
    BECUZ MAHGIEK BEE BETR
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  • TheNirlTheNirl REGISTERED Posts: 46
    I agree that both should play their part. I just prefer the idea of magic having the prevalent one =)
  • ZekloZeklo REGISTERED Posts: 344 Seed
    I actually hope both have top tier stuff. Mostly because me and my friend would always use minecraft tech and magic mods and well tech always ended up being better (for the most part). Since he went with tech and me magic it made going at each other that much less fun. It was if you want success go with tech and well that doesn't add that much diversity.
    "All things must come to an end." "I am but one of many." "Why? Why not!"
  • TheNirlTheNirl REGISTERED Posts: 46
    Zeklo has a point. I just want cool, diverse magic. I'm insisting on this point because I really wish there's the sort of "modular" system that I suggested in the other subforum. Of course, the more tech, the better, too!
  • SinnonSinnon REGISTERED Posts: 383 Seed
    Mh... this gives me a questionl; Will we be able to select our seed's appearance, or will have some ability to actually customize it?
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    Enlist your faction in Seekers Order, sub-groups or alliances are not problem with the enlisting, since we are a not a clan, just a UN sistem of organization.
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