Curse Forge?

13

Comments

  • ValidifyedValidifyed Posts: 612 Seed
    Hi Kaelten, Its nice to hear from "Up top", Just a few more questions about your answers to my questions about the question of accepting CurseForge - wait what?
    Kaelten wrote:
    Validifyed wrote:
    Here's what you need to make sure they wont do, indeed, refuse them permission to do;
    - Comment on Mods

    This is a setting per project. It's completed up to the owners of the project if they want comments or not.

    I was primarily concerned with curse posting anything on other peoples content - if they do that, it should be as equals, not as some official "Curse" user or to push some exclusive deal etc..
    Kaelten wrote:
    The descriptions you see of mods is completely written by the authors. We have minimal standards to ensure it's intelligible english.

    Good to hear. Does this extend to mod summaries? For spotlights and simply in listings (Ive seen it too many times, mods featured with host abbreviated explanations that fail to inform the reader about the mod fully)
    "Kaelten wrote:
    Nearly every user who uploads a project to CurseForge get's premium for free. It's a minimal thank you we give back to the awesome content creators we work with.

    It's also worth noting there's no concept of a premium mod, and to my knowledge no mod author has ever paid for advertisement with us.[/quote]

    I wasn't aware of this and it sounds very cool. As long as premium remains low visibility; iow; I dont think its beneficial to a social environment for someone to have a big "CURSE PREMIUM" above their head for every post they make.
    As for the idea of a "Premium Mod" I think there is a misunderstanding. You see what Im talking about all over the place, even on google, you search something, and even if they bare almost no relevance, some results get pushed to the top as "Ads" because they pay for this push. Can you guarantee you will never bump a mod up the listings or post it on front page simply because the creator donated or has premium?

    [quote="Kaelten"]I'm getting the sense you take exception to video content? If we find a great video that showcases something cool, we may post it.

    As long as the video is gaining traction that basically indicates it is "Being selected by the community" then this is fine, and certainly never make any special cases for specific youtubers - however good they may be. Every video gets equal footing, a video only gets shown if the community likes it, and emphasis should be put on videos that are lesser seen. Why point to a video everyone is already watching? (Something that the MC Curse team do ALOT)
    Kaelten wrote:
    Validifyed wrote:
    - Throttle download speeds deliberately to make a bigger premium incentive (Granted, Donors should get download priority, Im talking about capping DL speed when there is noone else downloading, that sort of thing.)

    This is actually a common feature of mod hosting sites, currently Curse does this as well as NexusMod. Both sites offer un-throttled bandwidth as a Premium feature.

    However! In the near future we're discontinuing this limitation completely. All users will have uncapped geographically distributed bandwidth. We're also removing ads in the Client for everyone.

    Nexus mods have uncapped download speeds to my knowledge, during peak times servers get overloaded and users have to share the bandwidth equally. Premium members get access to private download servers giving them a larger share of the more exclusive servers - this system is much better as far as i'm concerned, But If you can tell me that if you have a 10GB/s bandwidth, and a non premium member is the only person on the server at that point, and they get full access to 10GB/s, then Im happy with that, is this the case?

    As a final note about posting news. Are you saying that Cure will never, anywhere on the TUG section of CF, post an announcement?

    That's about it, for now.
  • inoino Posts: 131 El Jefe
    spacedot wrote:
    @ kadah thanks for a long post explaining some modding history and where peoples general distrust of Curse comes from. You also used digress correctly. I like you.



    Other than Spacedot, and maybe Kadah (Hello by the way, nice to meet you!), who is against using Curse to host our Mods online?

    Demidevon i think and "This would mean no steam workshop support" is what ino said.

    Damnit @spacedot, stop digressing from the topic ;)

    Also, to clarify yea, we would not be activiating steam workshop at all. But while we would officially push support and collaboration of future systems for modders (hosting/site side), you guys could throw your mods anywhere really.
    I am a Dev on TUG, and I does teh science

    Follow me on the twitters, why not? @inoritewtf
  • KaeltenKaelten Posts: 8 Podling
    Validifyed wrote:
    Hi Kaelten, Its nice to hear from "Up top", Just a few more questions about your answers to my questions about the question of accepting CurseForge - wait what?

    I was primarily concerned with curse posting anything on other peoples content - if they do that, it should be as equals, not as some official "Curse" user or to push some exclusive deal etc..

    We're never going to be injecting into peoples descriptions like that. Nor do we have any concept similar to 'sponsored posts' like you see on Facebook.
    Validifyed wrote:
    Good to hear. Does this extend to mod summaries? For spotlights and simply in listings (Ive seen it too many times, mods featured with host abbreviated explanations that fail to inform the reader about the mod fully)

    There's currently an internal mod spotlight program that I'm wanting to overhaul and redo. I think there's a lot of room for better quality that could be brought to this type os system compared to what we see currently.
    Validifyed wrote:
    I wasn't aware of this and it sounds very cool. As long as premium remains low visibility; iow; I dont think its beneficial to a social environment for someone to have a big "CURSE PREMIUM" above their head for every post they make.
    As for the idea of a "Premium Mod" I think there is a misunderstanding. You see what Im talking about all over the place, even on google, you search something, and even if they bare almost no relevance, some results get pushed to the top as "Ads" because they pay for this push. Can you guarantee you will never bump a mod up the listings or post it on front page simply because the creator donated or has premium?

    Well with every author having premium for free it'd be kinda silly for us to rank based on that ;)

    If someone _really_ wanted to advertise their mod they'd end up showing up in the advertisement slots like other adverts do. I don't see us having a paid for sort priority, I also don't think it'd be very viable even if we tried.
    Validifyed wrote:
    As long as the video is gaining traction that basically indicates it is "Being selected by the community" then this is fine, and certainly never make any special cases for specific youtubers - however good they may be. Every video gets equal footing, a video only gets shown if the community likes it, and emphasis should be put on videos that are lesser seen. Why point to a video everyone is already watching? (Something that the MC Curse team do ALOT)

    This comes back to my ideas for a better mod spotlight program. We may end up producing or contracting some content to be created, but the idea would be to try to find people who are doing great jobs on these things.

    One thing you see a lot though is popular mods get covered and unpopular mods don't in many programs. I see that as a weakness and one I intentionally want to avoid. Mods have a lots of merits, and popularity is only one of them.

    The purpose of this type program, if and when we redo it, is to not only show you cool popular things, but the cool things you haven't seen before.

    Validifyed wrote:
    Nexus mods have uncapped download speeds to my knowledge, during peak times servers get overloaded and users have to share the bandwidth equally. Premium members get access to private download servers giving them a larger share of the more exclusive servers - this system is much better as far as i'm concerned, But If you can tell me that if you have a 10GB/s bandwidth, and a non premium member is the only person on the server at that point, and they get full access to 10GB/s, then Im happy with that, is this the case?

    Just to clarify the fact Nexus does limit. This page lists this as the first featured of Nexus Premium. "All the files we offer on the sites are capped at 1024 kilobytes a second (1MB/second) to ensure we can offer a stable service for everyone. We remove this cap for Premium Members so you can download files faster than 1024kb/second if your connection can handle it."

    In our hosting model we have connectivity to our racks from the datacenter, not to individual servers. This is common is larger deployments such as ours. So as a result if we had 'premium only' servers would actually be a big lie in our marketing message. I could have servers for each user, and it'd still be limited by that global connectivity.

    That being said with the changes we're bringing it's going to be more like several hundred Gbits/s of potential connectivity, and everyone will have access to as much as their network connection to those PoPs can handle.
    Validifyed wrote:
    As a final note about posting news. Are you saying that Cure will never, anywhere on the TUG section of CF, post an announcement?

    No, not at all. That'd be unreasonable. We make network wide announcements regularly. When new games are supported we want the authors in all the communities to know about it. Do note this is not a regular event. We'll be posting news that we think authors will find useful and beneficial. Mod spotlights will be cross posted to the section when and if we find a TUG mod to highlight.

    What I can say is that you're not going to be flooded with all the new announcements for Minecraft modding, or when a new WoW patch drops.
  • ValidifyedValidifyed Posts: 612 Seed
    I have to say, most of this sounds great. (Other then the pushing of mod spotlighting, It looks to me like your working on a dynamic user driven program based on popularity for that atm which would be pretty cool).

    The main thing I think I have to ask now is how the service will be ran. What does CurseForge control, what does the TuG staff control and what do we, the users control?
  • KaeltenKaelten Posts: 8 Podling
    Validifyed wrote:
    I have to say, most of this sounds great. (Other then the pushing of mod spotlighting, It looks to me like your working on a dynamic user driven program based on popularity for that atm which would be pretty cool).

    The main thing I think I have to ask now is how the service will be ran. What does CurseForge control, what does the TuG staff control and what do we, the users control?

    The three main people that I 'work' for when it comes to modding are the Content Creators, the Users, and Curse (they give me my paycheck after all).

    Content Creators are always going to be in charge of their content. When they upload to us they give us right to host, store, and distribute their content, but they can also revoke that at anytime they think it's not in their best interest to work with us.

    My goal at the end of the day is to empower those creators to make the best absolute content they can. I want them to be able to concentrate on making cool stuff, not on hosting and the tedium that can bring (not to say certain people don't enjoy it, I do).

    The end users are going to help direct the way we build out services and things like the Client. The Client and Curse.com are end-user products and my driving mission is to make the content created by the first group as accessible as possible. Ideally we automate away most of the tedium and difficulties (and thus most of the common support issues that creators get hit with) to the point of being trivial.

    I'm lucky because my mission statement from Curse's executives are to grow the platform. That means achieving everything I've said in the first two groups. I don't have to pretend to have some secret motive. By doing a good job supporting creators and users we inherently will grow, and so my obligations to Curse are served by serving Content Creators and Users.

    As far as where does Ino and NerdKingdom come in? They give us direction. You guys are ultimately their community. We adopt their standpoint on things like acceptable content, and distribution guidelines. An example of what I mean there is that we follow Blizzard's guideline to ensure exploitive addons aren't distributed. With Squad we ensure Kerbal Space Port mods have public source code.

    In this potential partnership we'd be working with Ino et al to ensure that it's an extension of the existing community.

    Hrm, hope that didn't get too rambly.... :)
  • KadahKadah Posts: 7
    Rawr wrote:
    Damnit. Late again. Oh well, sleepy old New Zealand is going to chime in here.
    spacedot wrote:
    @kadah You also used digress correctly. I like you.

    Get a room.

    What?

    Kaelten wrote:
    Validifyed wrote:
    - Push premium member mods further forward or make them seem better

    Nearly every user who uploads a project to CurseForge get's premium for free. It's a minimal thank you we give back to the awesome content creators we work with.

    It's also worth noting there's no concept of a premium mod, and to my knowledge no mod author has ever paid for advertisement with us.
    I have misgivings about having premium for the reason that it would shield me being able to fully understand any detrimental changes to the non-premium experience players would get subjected to if such were to happen. (This is speaking from past experience)
    Kaelten wrote:
    Validifyed wrote:
    Hi Kaelten, Its nice to hear from "Up top", Just a few more questions about your answers to my questions about the question of accepting CurseForge - wait what?

    I was primarily concerned with curse posting anything on other peoples content - if they do that, it should be as equals, not as some official "Curse" user or to push some exclusive deal etc..

    We're never going to be injecting into peoples descriptions like that. Nor do we have any concept similar to 'sponsored posts' like you see on Facebook.
    I believe he meant making a premium members posts appear more prominently that non-premium, like a lot of attention grabbing features in their in-line post profile.

    Kaelten wrote:
    Validifyed wrote:
    - Throttle download speeds deliberately to make a bigger premium incentive (Granted, Donors should get download priority, Im talking about capping DL speed when there is noone else downloading, that sort of thing.)

    This is actually a common feature of mod hosting sites, currently Curse does this as well as NexusMod. Both sites offer un-throttled bandwidth as a Premium feature.

    However! In the near future we're discontinuing this limitation completely. All users will have uncapped geographically distributed bandwidth. We're also removing ads in the Client for everyone.
    Kaelten wrote:
    Just to clarify the fact Nexus does limit. This page lists this as the first featured of Nexus Premium. "All the files we offer on the sites are capped at 1024 kilobytes a second (1MB/second) to ensure we can offer a stable service for everyone. We remove this cap for Premium Members so you can download files faster than 1024kb/second if your connection can handle it."

    In our hosting model we have connectivity to our racks from the datacenter, not to individual servers. This is common is larger deployments such as ours. So as a result if we had 'premium only' servers would actually be a big lie in our marketing message. I could have servers for each user, and it'd still be limited by that global connectivity.

    That being said with the changes we're bringing it's going to be more like several hundred Gbits/s of potential connectivity, and everyone will have access to as much as their network connection to those PoPs can handle.
    You go in to details how Nexus's premium downloads work but not CF's. I'm wondering how that works currently vs where plans are for premium to fit in to it later.

    Kaelten wrote:
    I'm lucky because my mission statement from Curse's executives are to grow the platform. That means achieving everything I've said in the first two groups. I don't have to pretend to have some secret motive. By doing a good job supporting creators and users we inherently will grow, and so my obligations to Curse are served by serving Content Creators and Users.

    That's not the part that has concerned me about Cursed over the years, its the what will happen in 5-10 years later if Cursed is acquired by a larger company that doesn't share the same mission. I've been there too many times. (Again, from past experience.)
    Kaelten wrote:
    [-snip: discussion about making money from mods-]

    The Rewards Program was never intended to blur any lines. It is in fact a revenue share as it's directly funded from advertisements and premium revenues.

    Participation in the Rewards Program does not exclude you from posting a direct donation link, nor does it limit you from hosting anywhere else.
    Rewards Program?
    Is there an option to opt for minimal ads on a projects forge and related Cursed pages? I have less than no interest in ad revenue due to the frequent, lets just say, "low quality and standards" of most internet advertisements.



    I would like clarification on what is the "Premium Curse Client" and how that with change with these plans to have a new ad-free client. From the Premium Clients own page, its advertises addition mod content and features that are apparently not available to non-premium users.
  • KaeltenKaelten Posts: 8 Podling
    Kadah wrote:
    I have misgivings about having premium for the reason that it would shield me being able to fully understand any detrimental changes to the non-premium experience players would get subjected to if such were to happen. (This is speaking from past experience)

    I can understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately the best bet I'd advise for that is to use the site logged out, or have a second account that's not an author account. That being said, I've never even thought of that being an issue. We just wanted to say thank you to the authors. :(
    Kadah wrote:
    I believe he meant making a premium members posts appear more prominently that non-premium, like a lot of attention grabbing features in their in-line post profile.

    They get a different user title or color border around their avatar, but the post itself doesn't receive highlighting.
    Kadah wrote:
    You go in to details how Nexus's premium downloads work but not CF's. I'm wondering how that works currently vs where plans are for premium to fit in to it later.

    I was just trying to clarify some confusion for the purpose of a proper comparison case. :)

    We've historically had a very similar case where downloads a throttled for anonymous or non-premium users. We've decided this is not where we want to be and will be removing those restrictions. All users will be able to download at full speeds without any throttles.

    We're going to be looking at providing more value to Premium in the future but in the near future it's main benefit will be ad free browsing on the websites.
    Kadah wrote:
    That's not the part that has concerned me about Cursed over the years, its the what will happen in 5-10 years later if Cursed is acquired by a larger company that doesn't share the same mission. I've been there too many times. (Again, from past experience.)

    Unfortunately there's nothing I can actually say that'd completely mitigate the concern you bring up. Right now we have every intention to stay independent and continue our mission to grow, and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon. I think you'll still find us doing the same thing we're doing now (albeit much better) in 5 years, but it's impossible to know exactly what will happen. Since the future hasn't happened yet it's really impossible for me to assuage that particular concern. Please know that I completely understand it though.
    Kadah wrote:
    Rewards Program?
    Is there an option to opt for minimal ads on a projects forge and related Cursed pages? I have less than no interest in ad revenue due to the frequent, lets just say, "low quality and standards" of most internet advertisements.

    I would like clarification on what is the "Premium Curse Client" and how that with change with these plans to have a new ad-free client. From the Premium Clients own page, its advertises addition mod content and features that are apparently not available to non-premium users.

    Some of that is still being discussed in what form Premium will take in the Client. We do know that we're removing the ads and throttling. As such that will no longer be a differentiator. Things like Addon Sync, and cloud backups will still be premium features though. We'll also be trying to find new features and services to add to premium that make it a better value proposition.

    I can also guarantee that the 'essential' experiences of being able to install and manage mods from within the client will always be a free feature.
  • YankeeYankee Posts: 5 Podling
    yay another client to have on your pc :|

    as if Steam, Uplay and Origin aren't causing enough trouble, we need extra accounts for nearly every online game. Plus an account for their offical forums, aaaand another one for the big fansite which has all the good stuff and another one for the mod page and it goes on and on. I have so many accounts already I'm often surprised if I can't register on a page because "This e-mail is already in use.", and I'm wondering when and why I have registered there.

    And now try to have safe passwords and use different ones for each page :D

    So please stay at the Steam workshop. It's super easy to use and keep your mods up to date. You don't need any extra stuff an logins and programms.
  • KadahKadah Posts: 7
    I want to tank Jaded and Kaelten for coming in and commenting, its been illuminating.

    Kaelten wrote:
    Kadah wrote:
    I have misgivings about having premium for the reason that it would shield me being able to fully understand any detrimental changes to the non-premium experience players would get subjected to if such were to happen. (This is speaking from past experience)

    I can understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately the best bet I'd advise for that is to use the site logged out, or have a second account that's not an author account. That being said, I've never even thought of that being an issue. We just wanted to say thank you to the authors. :(
    True. And it not seeming like it will be an issue (sans EA takeover or something, lol).
    Kaelten wrote:
    Kadah wrote:
    I believe he meant making a premium members posts appear more prominently that non-premium, like a lot of attention grabbing features in their in-line post profile.

    They get a different user title or color border around their avatar, but the post itself doesn't receive highlighting.
    Ah, that's what I figured.
    Kaelten wrote:
    Kadah wrote:
    You go in to details how Nexus's premium downloads work but not CF's. I'm wondering how that works currently vs where plans are for premium to fit in to it later.

    I was just trying to clarify some confusion for the purpose of a proper comparison case. :)

    We've historically had a very similar case where downloads a throttled for anonymous or non-premium users. We've decided this is not where we want to be and will be removing those restrictions. All users will be able to download at full speeds without any throttles.

    We're going to be looking at providing more value to Premium in the future but in the near future it's main benefit will be ad free browsing on the websites.
    Thank you for the clarification, I am ok with this. :3

    Download limits non-premium on such high volumes of service (Curse hosts a lot of MC mods) just seem either that its artificial to force premium sigh up (this happened to many of mods sites in the past that were acquired by companies), or is reluctance to spent a little more of the ad money to get some additional bandwidth.
    Kaelten wrote:
    Kadah wrote:
    That's not the part that has concerned me about Cursed over the years, its the what will happen in 5-10 years later if Cursed is acquired by a larger company that doesn't share the same mission. I've been there too many times. (Again, from past experience.)

    Unfortunately there's nothing I can actually say that'd completely mitigate the concern you bring up. Right now we have every intention to stay independent and continue our mission to grow, and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon. I think you'll still find us doing the same thing we're doing now (albeit much better) in 5 years, but it's impossible to know exactly what will happen. Since the future hasn't happened yet it's really impossible for me to assuage that particular concern. Please know that I completely understand it though.
    Indeed, and your intents do seem to be quite positive, so yay.

    I read through Curse's TOS, got to the standard boilerplate verbiage for user content providers but with the nice additions I don't usually find in these:
    By submitting, posting or displaying User Submissions on, to, or through Curse Websites (or its successors and affiliates), you grant Curse, Inc. a worldwide, non-exclusive, transferrable, royalty-free right to use, reproduce, distribute, display, perform, make derivative works of (except with regard to Submitted Projects), transmit or otherwise utilize such User Submissions on Curse Websites (or its successors and affiliates). In addition to the foregoing, you grant Curse the right to syndicate User Submissions and use User Submissions in connection with any service offered by Curse, Inc. With regard to User Submissions known as “add-ons”, "maps", "mods", or other types of Projects submitted through CurseForge.com or sites powered by CurseForge (“Submitted Projects”), the aforementioned rights granted by you terminate once you remove or delete such Submitted Projects from Curse Websites. You also acknowledge that Curse, Inc. may retain, but not display, distribute, or perform, server copies of Submitted Projects that have been removed or deleted. You acknowledge that the rights granted to Curse to User Submissions other than Submitted Projects are perpetual. In addition you acknowledge and grant users of the Curse Websites a non-exclusive license to access your User Submissions through the Curse Websites (or its successors and affiliates) and to use such User Submissions as applicable by their respective licenses.
    That sentence there says more good than you could, and I like that its in writing in the TOS. Though it does not cover project content hosted at curse.com, I would like to assume the same applies to both parts of Curse.

    The first sentense it bog standard and you would laugh at the amount of dramah I have seem from it in other places. Its nice when the verbiage includes statement of intent, but its pretty rare and can be assumed to be the case from other sections of the TOS.

    And yes, I've been seen first hand cases where the terms of use of a site secretly included forfeiture of submitted content rights to then turn around after a few years and sell themselves for piles of money.
    Kadah wrote:
    Rewards Program?
    You didn't detail this and I can't find anything about it on Curse. Not mentioned in the TOS either.
    Kaelten wrote:
    Kadah wrote:
    I would like clarification on what is the "Premium Curse Client" and how that with change with these plans to have a new ad-free client. From the Premium Clients own page, its advertises addition mod content and features that are apparently not available to non-premium users.

    Some of that is still being discussed in what form Premium will take in the Client. We do know that we're removing the ads and throttling. As such that will no longer be a differentiator. Things like Addon Sync, and cloud backups will still be premium features though. We'll also be trying to find new features and services to add to premium that make it a better value proposition.

    I can also guarantee that the 'essential' experiences of being able to install and manage mods from within the client will always be a free feature.
    Is Addon Sync just a saved list of mods that auto reinstall when logging in to the client from another computer or is actually storing local user data in realtion to the mods in to the user's account, eg. preferences. If its the later, does the non-premium client at least do the first and be at least a functional as Steam Workshop?


    My opinions about Curse have changed considerably from this thread. Its nice to have a constructive conversion on something like this, lately there is a lot more pictures of cats and popcorn.
  • KaeltenKaelten Posts: 8 Podling
    Kadah wrote:
    I want to tank Jaded and Kaelten for coming in and commenting, its been illuminating.

    You're welcome. I'll always be around for answering questions I'm easy to find. :)
    Kadah wrote:
    Thank you for the clarification, I am ok with this. :3

    Download limits non-premium on such high volumes of service (Curse hosts a lot of MC mods) just seem either that its artificial to force premium sigh up (this happened to many of mods sites in the past that were acquired by companies), or is reluctance to spent a little more of the ad money to get some additional bandwidth.

    In it's original form it was actually a cost mitigator for us. But we've grown past the need for it, and we'd rather be less 'hostile' to our users. :)
    Kadah wrote:
    Indeed, and your intents do seem to be quite positive, so yay.

    I read through Curse's TOS, got to the standard boilerplate verbiage for user content providers but with the nice additions I don't usually find in these:
    By submitting, posting or displaying User Submissions on, to, or through Curse Websites (or its successors and affiliates), you grant Curse, Inc. a worldwide, non-exclusive, transferrable, royalty-free right to use, reproduce, distribute, display, perform, make derivative works of (except with regard to Submitted Projects), transmit or otherwise utilize such User Submissions on Curse Websites (or its successors and affiliates). In addition to the foregoing, you grant Curse the right to syndicate User Submissions and use User Submissions in connection with any service offered by Curse, Inc. With regard to User Submissions known as “add-ons”, "maps", "mods", or other types of Projects submitted through CurseForge.com or sites powered by CurseForge (“Submitted Projects”), the aforementioned rights granted by you terminate once you remove or delete such Submitted Projects from Curse Websites. You also acknowledge that Curse, Inc. may retain, but not display, distribute, or perform, server copies of Submitted Projects that have been removed or deleted. You acknowledge that the rights granted to Curse to User Submissions other than Submitted Projects are perpetual. In addition you acknowledge and grant users of the Curse Websites a non-exclusive license to access your User Submissions through the Curse Websites (or its successors and affiliates) and to use such User Submissions as applicable by their respective licenses.
    That sentence there says more good than you could, and I like that its in writing in the TOS. Though it does not cover project content hosted at curse.com, I would like to assume the same applies to both parts of Curse.

    The first sentense it bog standard and you would laugh at the amount of dramah I have seem from it in other places. Its nice when the verbiage includes statement of intent, but its pretty rare and can be assumed to be the case from other sections of the TOS.

    And yes, I've been seen first hand cases where the terms of use of a site secretly included forfeiture of submitted content rights to then turn around after a few years and sell themselves for piles of money.

    I actually wrote the majority of the sections involving mod rights in 2007 and 2008 working with authors from the communities we worked with at the time. Our intent is never to try to assert ownership, and even at the time our CEO's concern was to ensure we had enough rights to operate our business.

    Curse.com doesn't allow project uploads. Those projects you see on Curse.com are syndicated content from CurseForge. That TOS though applies to the entire network.
    Kadah wrote:
    Kadah wrote:
    Rewards Program?
    You didn't detail this and I can't find anything about it on Curse. Not mentioned in the TOS either.

    Ah sorry. So the rewards program is effectively a revenue share program. We allow authors who are interested to opt-in for their projects to earn points.

    The program as a whole receives a monthly funding based on revenues from the previous month.

    Points are awarded daily based on a synthetic popularity score we determined based on download statistics and other data. We reserve the right to change said scoring, but in general we don't change it often. I think just a few times in five going on six years.

    The rewards program as a whole has a secondary TOS which can be found here.
    Kadah wrote:
    Is Addon Sync just a saved list of mods that auto reinstall when logging in to the client from another computer or is actually storing local user data in realtion to the mods in to the user's account, eg. preferences. If its the later, does the non-premium client at least do the first and be at least a functional as Steam Workshop?

    Both are parts of the feature. Right now it's all premium only. I can't really speak to as if that will change going forward but it's possible, and I'll be taking everyone's feedback into that discussion. :)
    Kadah wrote:
    My opinions about Curse have changed considerably from this thread. Its nice to have a constructive conversion on something like this, lately there is a lot more pictures of cats and popcorn.

    I really do enjoy talking about these things. I think it benefits both sides to be able to discuss things constructively. :)
  • ValidifyedValidifyed Posts: 612 Seed
    Yankee wrote:
    yay another client to have on your pc :|

    as if Steam, Uplay and Origin aren't causing enough trouble, we need extra accounts for nearly every online game. Plus an account for their offical forums, aaaand another one for the big fansite which has all the good stuff and another one for the mod page and it goes on and on. I have so many accounts already I'm often surprised if I can't register on a page because "This e-mail is already in use.", and I'm wondering when and why I have registered there.

    And now try to have safe passwords and use different ones for each page :D

    So please stay at the Steam workshop. It's super easy to use and keep your mods up to date. You don't need any extra stuff an logins and programms.

    I hate steam workshop. For me that isn't an option...
  • ValidifyedValidifyed Posts: 612 Seed
    Kadah wrote:
    My opinions about Curse have changed considerably from this thread. Its nice to have a constructive conversion on something like this, lately there is a lot more pictures of cats and popcorn.

    I find myself in much the same position; I think now we need to hear from some of the mod creators and Lonely Golem members to get their input after all the new information. They are the major content creators atm after all.
  • jadedcatjadedcat Posts: 5
    Kadah wrote:
    I want to thank Jaded and Kaelten for coming in and commenting, its been illuminating.

    I like having conversations. I am very nosy and tend to like being part of the communities of the games I play. You guys have all been very nice and had questions that lead to informative discussions. I enjoy that. Whether CF becomes a host for T.U.G or not I plan to stick my nose into the community as often as possible.
  • RinRin Posts: 668 Seed
    jadedcat wrote:

    I like having conversations. I am very nosy and tend to like being part of the communities of the games I play. You guys have all been very nice and had questions that lead to informative discussions. I enjoy that. Whether CF becomes a host for T.U.G or not I plan to stick my nose into the community as often as possible.
    seal-of-approval-meme.jpg
    Warthunder, TUG and world of tanks fan/beta tester.
    member of The Lemurian empire and the Merchants guild
    Soon to be alchemist/apothecary in TUG
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  • PamcakesPamcakes Posts: 738 Seed
    Validifyed wrote:
    I think now we need to hear from some of the mod creators and Lonely Golem members to get their input after all the new information. They are the major content creators atm after all.

    The Lonely Golem team is on board with whatever is the best interest for NK.
    That's a really cool shirt you have on.
  • KadahKadah Posts: 7
    Kaelten wrote:
    Kadah wrote:
    Download limits non-premium on such high volumes of service (Curse hosts a lot of MC mods) just seem either that its artificial to force premium sigh up (this happened to many of mods sites in the past that were acquired by companies), or is reluctance to spent a little more of the ad money to get some additional bandwidth.

    In it's original form it was actually a cost mitigator for us. But we've grown past the need for it, and we'd rather be less 'hostile' to our users. :)
    That's what I was getting at. With your current size, bandwidth is cheap. On my other projects, our monthly bandwidth is just over what any normal host allows, the next step up would have been too expensive. I think we ended up round-robining across a couple servers with 200TB/m limits each and to be sure not to have 2 releases in the same month (not much of an issue with that team, lol). We were using Google Code prior to its retirement.
    Kaelten wrote:
    [-snip-]
    I actually wrote the majority of the sections involving mod rights in 2007 and 2008 working with authors from the communities we worked with at the time. Our intent is never to try to assert ownership, and even at the time our CEO's concern was to ensure we had enough rights to operate our business.
    Excellent. And I understand his concern, I've delt with companies far, far lager than curse that had made the very costly mistake of omitting such from their terms and they dealing with the huge content creator backlash when they added it back. Since it was "all things for the lawyers", there was much silence on their part for a very long time. lol
    Kaelten wrote:
    Curse.com doesn't allow project uploads. Those projects you see on Curse.com are syndicated content from CurseForge. That TOS though applies to the entire network.

    Would that be related to what I used to see on Curse.com years back where it was appearing like it was auto aggregating mod info from the MC forums? I remember that Google results for many mods were fairly diluted by many of these non-content aggregators.
    Kaelten wrote:
    Kadah wrote:
    Rewards Program?

    Ah sorry. So the rewards program is effectively a revenue share program. We allow authors who are interested to opt-in for their projects to earn points.

    The program as a whole receives a monthly funding based on revenues from the previous month.

    Points are awarded daily based on a synthetic popularity score we determined based on download statistics and other data. We reserve the right to change said scoring, but in general we don't change it often. I think just a few times in five going on six years.

    The rewards program as a whole has a secondary TOS which can be found here.
    Thanks for the info and link. I'm guessing all of that is behind account walls.
    Kaelten wrote:
    Kadah wrote:
    Is Addon Sync just a saved list of mods that auto reinstall when logging in to the client from another computer or is actually storing local user data in realtion to the mods in to the user's account, eg. preferences. If its the later, does the non-premium client at least do the first and be at least a functional as Steam Workshop?

    Both are parts of the feature. Right now it's all premium only. I can't really speak to as if that will change going forward but it's possible, and I'll be taking everyone's feedback into that discussion. :)

    I would personally lean more towards Nexus or Workshop instead if that's the case unless the Curse Client allows for me to specify its working directory so I can dropbox it like I do with the current FTB launcher...


    A question for the TUG devs, are you planning to make a walled garden for mods? I've gotten the impression that you only want one source/channel from where mods can be installed from.
  • KaeltenKaelten Posts: 8 Podling
    Kadah wrote:
    That's what I was getting at. With your current size, bandwidth is cheap. On my other projects, our monthly bandwidth is just over what any normal host allows, the next step up would have been too expensive. I think we ended up round-robining across a couple servers with 200TB/m limits each and to be sure not to have 2 releases in the same month (not much of an issue with that team, lol). We were using Google Code prior to its retirement.

    Yeah we usage a huge amount of bandwidth, and our hosting situation has evolved dramatically over the last five years.
    Kadah wrote:
    Excellent. And I understand his concern, I've delt with companies far, far lager than curse that had made the very costly mistake of omitting such from their terms and they dealing with the huge content creator backlash when they added it back. Since it was "all things for the lawyers", there was much silence on their part for a very long time. lol

    Yeah I feel this is something we 'got right' pretty early on, but every now and again armchair legal professional bring up specific points. Do know that if anything serious ever comes up related to that wording I'll be the first one to propose changes to our legal team to rectify it.
    Kadah wrote:
    Would that be related to what I used to see on Curse.com years back where it was appearing like it was auto aggregating mod info from the MC forums? I remember that Google results for many mods were fairly diluted by many of these non-content aggregators.

    We've never had a system to syndicate from MCF to Curse.com like that. We've had minecraft.curseforge.com for many years now in a few different states. We've been revamping it quiet heavily this year and I feel it's in a lot better place than it ever has been though.
    Kadah wrote:
    Thanks for the info and link. I'm guessing all of that is behind account walls.

    The TOS are shown when a user opts-in to the program.
    Kadah wrote:
    I would personally lean more towards Nexus or Workshop instead if that's the case unless the Curse Client allows for me to specify its working directory so I can dropbox it like I do with the current FTB launcher...

    It will for some games, where it makes sense. Most games have a working directory that's pretty well defined and thats the one we use. I've used symlinks to hack in my own settings sync using dropbox in the past. Those types of options will always be available to the initiated.
  • KadahKadah Posts: 7
    Kaelten wrote:
    Kadah wrote:
    Would that be related to what I used to see on Curse.com years back where it was appearing like it was auto aggregating mod info from the MC forums? I remember that Google results for many mods were fairly diluted by many of these non-content aggregators.

    We've never had a system to syndicate from MCF to Curse.com like that. We've had minecraft.curseforge.com for many years now in a few different states. We've been revamping it quiet heavily this year and I feel it's in a lot better place than it ever has been though.
    I'll take your word for it. May have been a different site that just looked similar to Curse. There was so many of these back then, it was silly.
    Kaelten wrote:
    Kadah wrote:
    Thanks for the info and link. I'm guessing all of that is behind account walls.

    The TOS are shown when a user opts-in to the program.
    I meant existence of and general info about the program.
  • spacedotspacedot Posts: 416 Seed
    One thing i don't like about these large threads with lots of large quotes is posts get missed. So i'll say again. Why not test all of the options?
  • GodGod Posts: 2
    Hey guys, I'm currently working on a TUG Mods site (tugmods.com), been tinkering away for a while now. There's an early HTML prototype up there now, and I'm going to admit it was mainly to start hoovering up some SEO juice.

    If anyone's interested in helping out or giving me one million Benjamins I'm happy to talk.

    I'm very able to foot the bill and keen on not running it like a business - so don't expect any (well, as much) dorkiness and deterioration that you could possibly experience with other solutions.

    Cheers, J
  • ValidifyedValidifyed Posts: 612 Seed
    God wrote:
    Hey guys, I'm currently working on a TUG Mods site (tugmods.com), been tinkering away for a while now. There's an early HTML prototype up there now, and I'm going to admit it was mainly to start hoovering up some SEO juice.

    If anyone's interested in helping out or giving me one million Benjamins I'm happy to talk.

    I'm very able to foot the bill and keen on not running it like a business - so don't expect any (well, as much) dorkiness and deterioration that you could possibly experience with other solutions.

    Cheers, J

    Really nice design, really neat HTML as well, very modular.
  • ValidifyedValidifyed Posts: 612 Seed
    spacedot wrote:
    One thing i don't like about these large threads with lots of large quotes is posts get missed. So i'll say again. Why not test all of the options?

    It happened again, last post on the page lol - reposted for ya' :P
  • spacedotspacedot Posts: 416 Seed
    Validifyed wrote:
    spacedot wrote:
    One thing i don't like about these large threads with lots of large quotes is posts get missed. So i'll say again. Why not test all of the options?

    It happened again, last post on the page lol - reposted for ya' :P

    I think the decision may have already been made.
  • TestamentofTestamentof Posts: 1,234 Seed
    Yeah, not really sure Scientific Process would work for this kind of experiment....
    The Machine is on....

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  • spacedotspacedot Posts: 416 Seed
    Yeah, not really sure Scientific Process would work for this kind of experiment....

    Why would finding out what the users find the easiest to use and prefer using not help.
  • TestamentofTestamentof Posts: 1,234 Seed
    The way your original proposal was worded didn't sound very practical, all things considered.
    The Machine is on....

    6.jpg

    otViQlH.png
  • spacedotspacedot Posts: 416 Seed
    The way your original proposal was worded didn't sound very practical, all things considered.

    Well that's a fair point. It was more of a example of how something like it could go.
  • ChohsanChohsan Posts: 220
    Hey Ino.

    I'm only on page 3 [of 9] as of this moment, but if you updated the main post to reiterate your points rather than reiterating via new posts in response it might help better get your point across to newer readers before they respond. I doubt everyone is going to read the entire thread before responding to the OP.
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  • I say ether or I really don't like to mod my survival games mainly cuz i don't like have to wait to update my game for the modders to update their mods before i can progress in my game which is why i don't mod MC i get so tired of having to wait for them to update so i can play the new stuff MC has. But i did like the hole thing with the MOD API with steam like for skyrim if it had an update and i had mods on it. The mods would still work with the new update throw Steam workshop ones i mean. But What ever you guys really decide on I will back you all up! that's what im here for ^~^ but iv used both Steam workshop and Curse before I prefer steam workshop just cuz it makes it easier on my cuz it installs the mods for me xD
  • CoraxCorax Posts: 1
    Some more food for thought: Another game I play (and mod) has recently switched to an "official" Curse hosted solution, and it has created a great rift in the community. They didn't change their forums to Curse, just the mod repository, and I think just that has opened a drain gate for the community to change from "we-love-each-other, here's some free stuff for you and have a look at the source code, too" to a growing mindset of "how can I get some tangible gains out of it all for me without giving away my secrets".
    It has to be said though that in contrast to here, the community wasn't even in the loop before they were confronted with the result, which may have contributed to the negative impact.


    I haven't seen this addressed thus far, so I'd like to bring a point to the discussion regarding any "games aggregator", be it Curse, Steam, or whatever else.
    Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I'm not happy with having to use a service that has the capability to profile my gaming (and/or other) habits. I'm mostly OK with the creator of the game having access to data on how and when I use their product, but as soon as it leaves the confines of this direct relationship, I'm strictly opposed. Curse doesn't need to know when I play which game for how long, neither does Steam.
    When I backed TUG, it seemed to be fiercely independent, no talk about having to use Steam, nor a Curse client, which was a big incentive for me.
This discussion has been closed.