Have you guys considered procedural animation

BandersnatchBandersnatch REGISTERED Posts: 101 Seed
edited July 2014 in Design
Or at least partial procedural animation?

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1020583/An ... e-Approach

I highly recommend watching this video if you haven't as it completely changed how I animate characters.

I'd say that the nature of TUG makes these types of adaptive motions ideal.

Even if you don't plan to fully implement it, I think the "figure skater" motion would be nice, it took me all of 5 min to set up in unity so I can't imagine it would be that bad in your engine unless you don't have a way to check velocity of an object.

Anyway just look at it, it's definitely worth watching.

Comments

  • jon14ukjon14uk REGISTERED Posts: 782 Seed
    That game is so fun and the things you can do in that game with combat is crazy . I can honestly say i would flip if ragdoll effects get put in also having that in first person would be crazy fun.
    t63NQg6.jpg?1?9101
    4.jpg
    The Military General for xandertopia :D .
    Overseers
    keepers of Balance
    the Fist of Glory
    Ars Arcanus
    Purus Aeternam
    Naturam Universitatis
  • BandersnatchBandersnatch REGISTERED Posts: 101 Seed
    Yea though the animation altogether looks way more organic, the active ragdolls are the things that add gameplay that I think would add a ton to TUG. Now though I think I'm going to go beg the dev of the game for a first person occulus rift version =D
  • RawrRawr REGISTERED, Tester Posts: 503 Seed
    You've put this into the Suggestions & Feedback form right?

    edit: + 1 for this idea btw
    Programmer, designer, artist.
  • BandersnatchBandersnatch REGISTERED Posts: 101 Seed
    Gonna copy and paste this right now!
  • SigilSigil REGISTERED, Developers Posts: 678 Developer
    So from what I understand there are a couple of hurdles here. The first is that it would mean overhauling the whole system. Right now we can't even do ragdoll because it lacks some key elements like IK handles. The real big reason though is that this is meant to be a multiplayer game and in my opinion should be as massively as possible.

    This means that a lot of inputs and is going to make local and network physics diverge and lag back. This kind of movement gets much too complex when Some of the things in the video can be built onto what we have though and they are refining that all the time.

    My impression of TUG is that it's not meant to be as experimental as games like Overgrowth. They have a goal and they mean to stick with it.
  • BandersnatchBandersnatch REGISTERED Posts: 101 Seed
    Sigil wrote:
    So from what I understand there are a couple of hurdles here. The first is that it would mean overhauling the whole system. Right now we can't even do ragdoll because it lacks some key elements like IK handles. The real big reason though is that this is meant to be a multiplayer game and in my opinion should be as massively as possible.

    This means that a lot of inputs and is going to make local and network physics diverge and lag back. This kind of movement gets much too complex when Some of the things in the video can be built onto what we have though and they are refining that all the time.

    My impression of TUG is that it's not meant to be as experimental as games like Overgrowth. They have a goal and they mean to stick with it.

    Very good point about the lag, however if the game's already going to live update all physics enabled objects, I wouldn't think 15 (the number of bones in a standard gaming rig that you'd use ragdoll physics on, no need for the face or toes to move) objects would make a huge difference. Of course this isn't to say it's a small hurdle, currently getting objects to sync across multiplayer at an acceptable speed is probably the technically hardest thing after water that NK needs to do.

    As for IK handles, yes that is something that would need to be added, however I believe most game developers add at least basic IK functionality so walking up hills looks right instead of just making a ton of animations for individual hill angles. IK also doesn't require much processing power, so while active ragdolls might de-sync in extremely large amounts, you can run the IK animations on each individual computer with no problem (my raspberry pi can do inverse kinematics live via blender up to 200 bones before starting to affect the framerate by 1 frame). Additionally if the procedural animations de-sync, it's not the end of the world as it has no impact on the game and likely wouldn't even be noticeable.

    I don't expect ragdoll physics anytime soon (if at all), but I think they'd add an extra element which, with how TUG's being designed, would feel right at home in it. There are much more pressing things to worry about than integrating ragdoll physics. However I think it might be worth looking into procedural animation. It not only eases the load of an animator, especially in games like this where there are so many things which should be possible and you have to account for every possibility, it also looks more realistic in games than any hand animated animation. Later it's probably worth looking into ragdolls, but not right now.

    As for what you said about TUG not being an experimental game, I think it is a little experimental. Nobodies given as much control to players as they plan to, no one has created an avenue to get the data they plan to get from TUG, no one's created a dynamic soundscape, or thought of death as anything other than the death of a character or a time to respawn, there are many more things, but the point is, TUG is very much experimental. It might not be what we're seeing now, but to me, it doesn't seem any more experimental than overgrowth. In Overgrowth they set out to create a game about fighting anthropomorphic rabbits, it just so happened that they were understaffed and the programmer came up with a solution. They didn't set out to create a game with procedural animation, it just happened. If anything TUG is more experimental because from the start, NK was planning many things unheard of in game creation. Open player input on every aspect of development, never been done before, but it was part of the goal from the beginning.

    Anyway I think it's at least looking at the procedural animation (maybe mixed with traditional animation) and to later, look at active ragdolls. Sorry for making this so long.
  • Youngy798Youngy798 REGISTERED Posts: 905 Seed
    From what I remember seeing, they also made a system for overgrowth where they had preset animations which they could add to a character and the animation could be automatically adapted to work on the character. Very interesting stuff :D
    Hello there! I am Youngy future owner of Plainhold (hopefully), go read the topic about Plainhold, and the Lemurian Empire, maybe also some of my other posts, like my mining suggestions! :)

    Bye!
  • ValidifyedValidifyed REGISTERED Posts: 612 Seed
    On the point of connection, not everything needs to be sent, facial animations etc can stay entirely client side and be ran based on other factors received from the server. At the end of the day, what can you achieve by hacking faces anyway?

    The procedural animation looks amazing, Ive been following Overgrowth for a long time now and its combat system blows my mind, so hardcore, so skill based hyper realistic and fluid. I dont know how the animation work is going at the moment for tug, but it seems fairly foundational at the moment, and adding procedurals could save a lot of time in the long run depending on how far the animations are currently planned to go.
  • Youngy798Youngy798 REGISTERED Posts: 905 Seed
    I think what they have as part of overgrowth, is a system where the animations scale to fit different models. So you could have one running animation, and add it to a cat person or a dog person.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UcXDCEkm5s

    From the video description they say:

    David has created an animation algorithm can translate the orginal humanoid BVH data to suit the specific size and dimensions of the current humanoid character you have rigged.
    Hello there! I am Youngy future owner of Plainhold (hopefully), go read the topic about Plainhold, and the Lemurian Empire, maybe also some of my other posts, like my mining suggestions! :)

    Bye!
Sign In or Register to comment.